Got Thieves World?

Patrick O'Duffy said:
Having said that, I don't think we've ignored the classic era at all; just as the modern stories build on that history and legacy, so too does the RPG. All the TW RPG sourcebooks are designed to provide tools for both eras, to give a broad base of support and information and let players/GMs decide which era of the setting appeals most. The classes, rules, magic system, GMing advice and support... it's all usable in both eras. The choice of era determines events, characters and social dynamics more than anything else, and those are elements that GMs and players provide far more than sourcebooks.
The impression I've got from reading the book is that it provides D20 mechanics that will allow my gaming group to play in the classic era using the original box-set that one of the players still has. I've bought him the book as his birthday present.

Cheers,
Liam
 

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Erekose said:
While the new books are OK - I'm really interested in the Sanctuary of the original series so I was a little irked by the emphasis in the players handbook on the new books (may be it was my imagination - but may be not!)

Also I was midly annoyed with the book not following the Mongoose style of being a complete game (e.g. Conan) but instead requiring purchasers to have the 3 core rules books. To be honest I have the core rules (and more) but it just made the book seem incomplete.

I kind of agree. Because of this, I thought the book felt a bit too much like "normal" D&D. Here's a bunch of classes and PrC's you can add to your normal D&D game. After reading the stories, my version of a d20 Thieves' World probably would have been quite different than this.

And for the sake of discussion, I feel the Conan d20 rules capture the Conan feel extremely well.
 

Patrick O'Duffy said:
As for the 'classic vs. new' thing... well, one function of a licensed game is to tie into the property being licensed. People who like the stories buy the game; people who like the game buy the books. Now, there's little point in making a game about a setting that's been out of print for more than 10 years; it's not going to attract new blood, and it's going to frustrate gamers who want to explore that world further but can't find those OOP books. So it makes much more sense to cover both eras, but to favour the modern, accessible, currently-in-print era over the other.
Sounds like a very reasonable approach.
Having said that, I don't think we've ignored the classic era at all; just as the modern stories build on that history and legacy, so too does the RPG. All the TW RPG sourcebooks are designed to provide tools for both eras, to give a broad base of support and information and let players/GMs decide which era of the setting appeals most. The classes, rules, magic system, GMing advice and support... it's all usable in both eras. The choice of era determines events, characters and social dynamics more than anything else, and those are elements that GMs and players provide far more than sourcebooks.
Ah, yes. I can see how that would work. Thanks for the imput. You've got yourself a sale. I ordered my book today.
 

nerfherder said:
The impression I've got from reading the book is that it provides D20 mechanics that will allow my gaming group to play in the classic era using the original box-set that one of the players still has. I've bought him the book as his birthday present.
Sadly, I've long since "lost" (it turned up missing after a game session with horrible, new players that I never invited back) my boxed set and am trying to acquire a new set off eBay.
 

Erekose said:
Also I was midly annoyed with the book not following the Mongoose style of being a complete game (e.g. Conan) but instead requiring purchasers to have the 3 core rules books. To be honest I have the core rules (and more) but it just made the book seem incomplete.
I suspect that that is why they didn't include the rules from the core rules, just about everyone already has them.

If it's like the Black Company Campaign Setting GR put out previously, it's so packed with stuff that the addition of the rules most already possess would edge out material that would be missed if not there.
 

The Thieves' World Player's Guide is a terrific book. Ninety percent of it is top notch. I had no doubt the setting info would be good, so I won't speak at length on those points. I wasn't sure if a d20 adaptation of Thieves' World would work -- thankfully, it does. The new core classes are welcome additions to the sword-n-sorcery genre and the prestige classes are evocative of the setting. The references to characters from the series as examples of a particular class (or multi-class) was a nice touch. I also liked the approach taken with culture and background to differentiate between the various human cultures.

The spellcasting rules are a thing of sheer beauty and the modifications to combat are good. I felt they could have gone farther with combat, but since I use Conan as my baseline ruleset, it wasn't a big deal. However, since this is a book that is intended to work in conjunction with the Player's Handbook, I can understand why they only made modifications they felt were necessary. As a long-time fan of the series and setting, I anxiously await the rest of the line.

I do have one gripe about the book though. As I stated, the book is not intended to replace the Player's Handbook - this isn't an OGL game. I wish that it would have been for one specific reason, however. Although the spellcasting system is a work of art, the standard spell lists were just modified to fit the 4 new spellcasting classes. And this is where the ball got dropped. Eight chapters of d20 gold get smacked by Chapter Nine: Spells. This chapter obviously did not receive enough attention. Although the modifications to cure spells were well done, they appear to be the only spells that received more than a cursory glance. Exhibit A to this point is the 10-level Healer of Mishipri prestige class, one of the best Prestige Classes I've ever seen and a perfect d20 rendition of the source material from the series.

The problem? The Priest, a replacement of the cleric, gets Remove Disease and Neutralize Poison as part of the standard priest spell list - just like it's D&D cleric counterpart at 6th and 8th level, respectively. The Healer of Mishipri? Level limits on skill level will keep a character from entering the Prestige Class before 3rd level. The ability to make antidotes doesn't come until 5th level in the class (character level = 8) and the ability to make an elixir to treat disease isn't available until 7th level in the class (character level = 10). Why enter into a class that uses mundane methods when I can have magical alternatives two levels earlier?

[I never understood why curing diseases (like say cancer) was easier than neutralizing poison (say from a snake bite) in D&D in the first place, but that's a different gripe.]

If I were writing a review, this would cause an otherwise perfect book to lose a star. Final score = 4 stars.

I realize that writing a list of spells from the ground up would be a major undertaking. If the book were an OGL title, I would levy a much bigger strike for not doing one as was done with the Conan RPG. However, the spell list could have been scrubbed better to remove spells that conflicted with the source material. I mean, what are healing spells doing on a general priest list in a setting with limited healing?

Here's hoping that TW does well enough to warrant its own spell supplement in the future. If that's not in the cards, then maybe between The Black Company and Thieves' World, Green Ronin releases a variant magic book that includes setting-specific spells and lists in addition to alternative spellcasting systems.

Azgulor
 

Azgulor said:
Here's hoping that TW does well enough to warrant its own spell supplement in the future. If that's not in the cards, then maybe between The Black Company and Thieves' World, Green Ronin releases a variant magic book that includes setting-specific spells and lists in addition to alternative spellcasting systems.

Azgulor

Well, apparently they're preparing a PDF book for release this winter that adapts the Black Company magic system to regular D20. So it's half of what you asked for :)

Banshee
 

Azgulor said:
The problem? The Priest, a replacement of the cleric, gets Remove Disease and Neutralize Poison as part of the standard priest spell list - just like it's D&D cleric counterpart at 6th and 8th level, respectively. The Healer of Mishipri? Level limits on skill level will keep a character from entering the Prestige Class before 3rd level. The ability to make antidotes doesn't come until 5th level in the class (character level = 8) and the ability to make an elixir to treat disease isn't available until 7th level in the class (character level = 10). Why enter into a class that uses mundane methods when I can have magical alternatives two levels earlier?

You make a good point, but you are overlooking two important factors.

First, magic is less reliable in TW than in other settings, depending on rolls and ambient mana levels. Mundane methods may take longer, but they always work.

Second, and more importantly, priests don't get to cast any divine spells they like with a day's notice, like a D&D cleric; they have to choose their Known and Familiar spells, and they have very little avenue for changing those once chosen. A priest who takes neutralize poison as a spell choice is stuck with it, just like a D&D sorcerer who takes fireball. There's an opportunity cost involved, and that means it's not a cut-and-dried, obviously-better choice.
 

Crothian said:
I perfer the book being all new material then the Mongoose bookms that seem to be half reprinted from the SRD


As opposed to say, Arcana Evolved? Or Mutants & Masterminds with many of the feats taken directly from, yes, the SRD?

The true benefit of being an OGL game is that it's a single reference point.

And while the reprinted material does feel like a waste, it is time saving. I'm learning this while flipping through Soverign Stone 3.5 which doesn't know if it wants to be an OGL game or a d20 game as a lot of stuff isn't reference to the player's handbook with it's own equipment list, reprinting the fighter and barbarian, but lacking all the core stuff to back those classes up.
 

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