GR DC & Etc.

[Umbran]

Top tier of what stack?

Top gross sales? Top product quality? Top influence on the rpg market? Top company worth? Top company size?

 

[Steel_Wind]

If the test for "top tier" is licensed setting of any consequence, is anybody in the biz aggressively licensing other than Green Ronin? Probably not.

Margaret Weis Productions puts out licensed RPGs for Serenity, Supernatural and Smallville, just off the top o' me head.

True enough and good point. Though with Song of Ice and Fire, Dragon Age, The Chronicles of the Black Company, and now, DC Adventures, I would still give the "biggest licensor" to Green Ronin.

Just how well these products sell, otoh, is a different matter.

When it comes to "top tier" in the RPG business, there really is only one. There is WotC. That's it, They are in a class (and market) of their own. Only Paizo currently challenges sales of core books with WotC - and that's in some venues with a relatively newer rules set vs one that was released more than two years ago (4E).

Release new versions of each at the same time, I don't think anybody would argue that as matters currently stand, D&D mops the floor with whoever tries to compete with it. (For now, that is.)

Below that, in Tier 2 as far as market presence goes, it would appear that the current best sellers in the market place are Paizo's Pathfinder, Fantasy Flight Games' Warhammer at #3 and then Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader #4 with Green Ronin's Dragon Age RPG in #5 -- in that order -- according to ICV's report on Diamond Comics Distributors sales for the 1st quarter of 2010.

If making the Top Five Bestselling RPG's list is the test, I would argue that Dragon Age already put GR in that league. Now, fifth spot is nice -- but that doesn't say much about how large those sales are relative to the others, and it says even less aout how long-lasting those sales are. Most licensed properties tend to be a short burst of sales followed by...nothing.

I exepct that fifth place is still a somewhat distant placing.

(And yes, World of Darkness doesn't even make the top five in terms of sales anymore. Looks like WWP's ship has sailed for the time being.)

If DC Adventures can elevate Geen Ronin's sales and put that game higher in the list than Dark Heresy/ Rogue Trader (and I would argue that is a very realistic goal), then Green Ronin would definitely muscle in to the second rung and place in the top five in a convincing manner.

Otherwise, I think the answer is, objectively assessed, "no".

We'll see.

 

[Umbran]

Below that, in Tier 2 as far as market presence goes, it would appear that the current best sellers in the market place are Paizo's Pathfinder, Fantasy Flight Games' Warhammer at #3 and then Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader #4 with Green Ronin's Dragon Age RPG in #5 -- in that order -- according to ICV's report on Diamond Comics Distributors sales for the 1st quarter of 2010.

I think you have to be careful thinking about that - you're talking only about a single quarter - Q1 2010 there. That's not a long time.

If I recall correctly, White Wolf was in the same Top 5 for at least Q 2, 3, and 4 of 2009. Are they suddenly not "top tier" because for one quarter they've not been in that list? Even though they've been big in the market in general for many years?

 

[Steel_Wind]

I think you have to be careful thinking about that - you're talking only about a single quarter - Q1 2010 there. That's not a long time.

If I recall correctly, White Wolf was in the same Top 5 for at least Q 2, 3, and 4 of 2009. Are they suddenly not "top tier" because for one quarter they've not been in that list? Even though they've been big in the market in general for many years?

You are correct. Though for what it's worth, they were in fifth place in the last quarter of 2009. The temporary sales bleep of Dragon Age pushed them out. They probably will slip back in. As licensed properties tend to be temporary, they probably will slip back in.

I don't think that changes the fact that WWP is not doing as well in the marketplace right now as it once used to. Circa 2000, White Wolf was the second biggest kid on the block. It's pretty clear that they aren't in that position any longer

I think Paizo has firmly taken over the second biggest bully on the block position.... for now

If WWP (or anybody else, for that matter) came out with a Twilight licensed RPG? All bets are off. I'd like to see the effect of that license in the marketplace (and on Femme player recruiting).

Similarly, one would expect that a Harry Potter licensed RPG would have an enormous effect upon any publisher's sales.

Actually, I think a Harry Potter Wizarding World RPG, if done very well, might alter the entire marketplace in a way that could displace D&D in the short to medium term. Moreover, a game like that could dramtically effect player acquisition for all RPGs, too.

Up until now, JK Rowling has been reportedly very hostile to the idea of a Harry Potter RPG. She sees anybody putting out details on how magic works and what Hogwarts looks like, statting up her characters and so forth as amounting to licensing fan fiction and restricting her creative space. She is very hostile to the idea, if reports I've read are accurate.

And seeing as she doesn't need the money, she finds it very easy to say "no".

But an HP MMO might change her view on that -- and there are rumours of Warner Bros. creating such a beast.

I suppose in a few more years, she might relent. Mind you, as time marches on, the ability of a Harry Potter license to upset all RPG apple carts certainly diminishes with time, too.

 

[Treebore]

If "Top tier" is biggest money maker, then yes, it is WOTC, with FFG, WW, etc.. up there being "distant second" top tier companies.

I still like going with the personal perspective though. For me WOTC and WW are barely blips on my radar anymore, other companies are "top tier" for what I want out of my RPG experience.

Still, doing top tier by their revenue does show who the most people are paying attention to, so I guess I just don't follow the crowd. Except with regards to Paizo, I do follow them, and they are the only ones I buy from monthly. Despite not having ever played Pathfinder, or wanting to.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Top tier of what stack?

Top gross sales? Top product quality? Top influence on the rpg market? Top company worth? Top company size?

This, top tier of what?

 

[dmccoy1693]

From my prospective at one of the bottom rungs, yea they look like a top tier company to me.

Seriously, though. Because of the DC license, I am giving M&M 3pp license a serious look. I thought of the license before, but with the DC license it moved them up several notches in considering them. That alone should say enough.

 

[Qualidar]

Are they all top tier? The DC license is particularly promiscuous, having been with three different companies now. She ain't no catch.

I don't believe DC has ever had a game product with the production values and general quality shown by M&M. I think it has a great potential to bring in some new gamers, more than most licensed games really, given the comic book store distribution channel. The collectors mindset of many comic book geeks (and I use that term with fondness) will help them there.

Of course, that would be nothing compared to Steel Wind's proposed WW Twilight license, which would eclipse the gaming world in an apocalyptic cloud of glitter.

 

[Psychotic Jim]

I'm no great judge on what makes a game company great, but I'd caution against basing it on the ability to obtain licenses. Green Ronin has done a lot of great work in the past (M&M is my favorite game system, and Freeport is also dear to my heart), but I'm going to wait and see what they do with the license before making any declarations . How they handle it to me is just as, if not more, important than getting the license in the first place.