Grapple and Rake

[DMFTodd]

A rake allows "extra natural attacks when it grapples a foe". So a tiger, for instance, can bite and rake if it has a grapple.

1) A tiger can use the "Damage an Opponent" option of grappling (requiring a grapple vs. grapple check) to use his bite. Right?

2) For the rake, does the tiger have to use the "Attack An Opponent" option (requiring attack roll Vs. AC) or can it use the "Damage an Opponent" option with the rake?

3) If the tiger has to use the "Attack an Opponent", could it use the "Damage an Opponent" option for the bite and then the "Attack an Opponent" option for the rake?

 

[Henrix]

1) Damage Your Opponent does not let the tiger use his bite attack. It lets the grappler deal damage "equivalent to an unarmed strike", i.e. 1d4 for medium sized critters and 1d6 for large sized lions.

2) It has to use the Attack Your Opponent.

3) No. Attack your opponent all the way, this gives the lion a bite attack, at -4, and two raking claws.

 

[greyhawkrr]

I agree mostly with Hendrix, but there is one detail he seems to be forgetting. When a creature has Improved Grab (as the tiger does with the bite attack), it CAN use its bite attack damage when making opposed grapple checks. However, as I interpret it, this precludes the creature from making any additional attacks (including rake) unless it has extra grapple attempts from a high BAB bonus.

If you want the creature to rake, it may also make a bite attack at a -4 penalty. Note the rakes are considered "extra attacks" and thus an exception to the normal rules for grappling which normally allow you make an attack with only one weapon. Hence, if the tiger wishes to attack rather than make a grapple check, it may use the bite or a single claw in conjunction with the two rake attacks.

 

[Prism]

1. Since the tiger has improved grab on its bite each grapple to damage its opponent deals bite damage. As this is not an attack with a natural it can have multiple grapples if it has a high BAB

2. Multiple grapple attempts are only allowed for a high BAB so the 2 rakes are normal claw attacks but without the normal -4 for being in a grapple.

3. You can mix and match attacks and grapples freely on each attack so I see no reason why you could grapple to do damage with the bite and follow up with 2 rake attacks

Another way of gaining additional attacks like this is to only use the bite as part of the grapple which means a -20 on grapple checks but also frees up any other limbs to attack normally. In this case it would mean the two normal claws in addition to the 2 rakes