Grapple damage, when at what point do you apply it?

[Epicurus88]

I understand about the mechanics of how to go about grappling, but what I dont understand is how soon can you apply damage when grappling?

Let's say the grapple begins with my pc successfully grabbing my opponent and winning the opposed grapple check. It's still my PC's turn and my PC and his opponent are considered grappling.

Is that the end of my turn?

Or, now that were considered grappling, can my PC make a grapple choice, in the same round, among such choices as pinning, attacking with a weapon, or doing unarmed damage (as a result of a grapple check like the one he succeeded at the step before)? Or does the PC need to wait until his next turn and make/succeede on a grapple check to perform a grapple option?

 

[Pinotage]

Well, you can make as many grapple checks in a round as you have attacks according to your BAB. So if you have +11 BAB, you can make 3 grapple checks. First, for example, to grab hold and achieve the grapple, dealing damage at the same time, and the other two later on to pin, deal damage or possibly attack with a light weapon. Damage is done on the round you achieve the grapple or whenever you initiate a grapple check to deal damage as with an unarmed strike.

Pinotage

 

[Thanee]

As long as you don't go into grappling with natural weapons, it's actually fairly straightforward.

Most special grapple actions just replace an attack.

So, if your fighter has 3 attacks and uses the first to initiate a grapple (if successful you also deal damage as with an unarmed strike, that's still part of the first attack), then he can use the other 2 to perform special grapple actions, like damaging the opponent, or pinning, or use it to perform another attempt to initiate a grapple, if the first was unsuccessful (i.e. if the fighter is without Improve Grapple, and if the AoO provoked by the Grapple attempt dealt damage, the second attempt will likely not get blocked that way).

Bye
Thanee

 

[kjenks]

Well, you can make as many grapple checks in a round as you have attacks according to your BAB. So if you have +11 BAB, you can make 3 grapple checks. First, for example, to grab hold and achieve the grapple, dealing damage at the same time, and the other two later on to pin, deal damage or possibly attack with a light weapon.

That's correct for a full attack. The second grapple attempt is done at -5 on your grapple check, the third at -10 on your grapple check, while the opposed check of your opponent remains at the same bonus.

Damage is done on the round you achieve the grapple or whenever you initiate a grapple check to deal damage as with an unarmed strike.

Pinotage

Specifically, damage is done during step 3 or when using the Damage Your Opponent option.

 

[Benben]

As long as you don't go into grappling with natural weapons, it's actually fairly straightforward.

What makes attack with natural weapons more difficult?

 

[Pinotage]

What makes attack with natural weapons more difficult?

There's a long debate about the use of natural weapons in a grapple, stemming from the quote in the MM which says that natural weapons do not follow a BAB progression, hence 'implying' that those attacking with natural weapon only get a single attack during a grapple. I don't remember all the details but the bottom line is there's some confusion as to how it's supposed to work, and what you can do while using natural weapons in a grapple.

Pinotage

 

[Thanee]

What makes attack with natural weapons more difficult?

Don't ask...

No really... the problem is, that grapple is based on iterative BAB progression, but that is not used when you attack with natural weapons.

Therefore, if you attack with natural weapons, and initiate a grapple, you will not get any remaining attacks, since you can only use one natural weapon in a grapple, and you already did so, and you get no extra attacks from a high BAB. Next round you'll have to "switch" to BAB to perform special grapple actions. Then the problem arises, whether you can use the Attack Your Opponent action multiple times with a natural weapon.

It's a mess...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Epicurus88]

Ok, so assuming we have a 1st lvl fighter...

With only one attack to his name, his turn would end with the success of entering into a grapple? He does not get to choose what he does with his successful grapple check the first round he achieved the grapple?

I don't know if i'm making sense... am I?

Maybe an order of events would help clarify...

1st lvl Fighter vs. Goblin
Init:
15 - fighter
10 - goblin

Beginning of round 1

Fighter moves 15' and attempts to start a grapple
Goblin, being flat footed does not get to make an AoO
Fighter succeedes in a touch attack
Fighter wins opposed grapple check
Figher moves into goblins square

End of fighter's turn?

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

When the fighter wins the opposed grapple check, he deals unarmed damage.

After the fighter moves into the goblin's square, yes, his turn is over.

AR

 

[Epicurus88]

Now let's put a spin on it... what if we have a Brown Bear making a claw attack with which it gets to use it's Improved Grab ability.

For arguements sake, let's assume the Brown Bear had to move before its attack, so it's not using the Full Attack option, it's only got ONE attack this round.

Bear claw attack succeedes (dealing claw damage)
Bear uses Improved Grab ability and succedes in an opposed grapple check against opponent.

Does the bear get to deal damage AGAIN with it's natural weapons?