Grappling a water elelmental????

[Doppleganger]

The elementals aren't intangible. I'd describe to the player that it feels like he's wrestling with a giant water-balloon. It's a semi-solid object, so you can punch it, push it, bounce objects off it, etc. But it would feel blubbery, slimey, slippery, squishy, wet, and squeezable.

 

[LokiDR]

The elementals aren't intangible. I'd describe to the player that it feels like he's wrestling with a giant water-balloon. It's a semi-solid object, so you can punch it, push it, bounce objects off it, etc. But it would feel blubbery, slimey, slippery, squishy, wet, and squeezable.

That sounds like an advertisement for a toy of some sort...

 

[Tzarevitch]

I added a subtype in my game called "non-solid". Non-solid creatures usually have gaseous or fluid forms. They automatically succeed at escape artist rolls to escape any form of grapple or physical containment unless the method of confinement is appropriately fluid-tight or air tight (in which case they only get a normal escape-artist roll like everyone else). Air, fire and water elementals are non-solid, earth elementals are a special case. They are effectively a spirit that animates stone to form its body. Since the animating spirit of an earth elemental can effectiely phase itself through stone I allow the spirit to "drop" its earth body (allow it to fall apart) to automatically break grapples and reform it again by expending an attack. Generally though my earth elementals want to be in a grapple (I refitted mine with imprved grapple and earth's embrace from Oriental Adventures) so my PCs have never seen one of them do this.

Tzarevitch

 

[LokiDR]

I added a subtype in my game called "non-solid". Non-solid creatures usually have gaseous or fluid forms. They automatically succeed at escape artist rolls to escape any form of grapple or physical containment unless the method of confinement is appropriately fluid-tight or air tight (in which case they only get a normal escape-artist roll like everyone else). Air, fire and water elementals are non-solid, earth elementals are a special case. They are effectively a spirit that animates stone to form its body. Since the animating spirit of an earth elemental can effectiely phase itself through stone I allow the spirit to "drop" its earth body (allow it to fall apart) to automatically break grapples and reform it again by expending an attack. Generally though my earth elementals want to be in a grapple (I refitted mine with imprved grapple and earth's embrace from Oriental Adventures) so my PCs have never seen one of them do this.

Tzarevitch

I think there are enough sub-types to cover this: etheral, gasous, incorporeal. Note the elementals do not have any of these. Hence adding them is adding power to the creatures.

An interesting house rule though. One question: how does anything escape an air-tight container without going through the container or breaking it?

 

[Tzarevitch]

I think there are enough sub-types to cover this: etheral, gasous, incorporeal. Note the elementals do not have any of these. Hence adding them is adding power to the creatures.

An interesting house rule though. One question: how does anything escape an air-tight container without going through the container or breaking it?

Honestly I have no idea, but as I recall, epic escape artist somehow gets you out of a forcecube which is impervious to gaseous and incorporeal creatures.

As for the subtypes, most of them don't apply (except for air elemental possibly being gasous). There are many creatures that don't have a solid form that are not ethereal, gasous, or incorporeal such as most elementals and all oozes. They are simply non-solid.

The house rule doesn't really add extra power to elementals or oozes because it really doesn't come up often.

Tzarevitch

 

[LokiDR]

Honestly I have no idea, but as I recall, epic escape artist somehow gets you out of a forcecube which is impervious to gaseous and incorporeal creatures.

Ya, epic. That might as well be supernatural effect (which it might be classified as)

As for the subtypes, most of them don't apply (except for air elemental possibly being gasous). There are many creatures that don't have a solid form that are not ethereal, gasous, or incorporeal such as most elementals and all oozes. They are simply non-solid.

But, by definitions in the game, they are. If they are not, how could blunt weapons effect them? If a player gets a character with this sub-type, would you mind them not being effected by creatures with improved grapple? Your house rule doesn't make much sense to me.

The house rule doesn't really add extra power to elementals or oozes because it really doesn't come up often.

Tzarevitch

If it doesn't come up, why add it?

My party doesn't use petrification all that often. Does this mean I can house rule all outsiders immune to pertrification without any ill effects on the game?