Grappling & Displacement

[the_mighty_agrippa]

Does a grappler benefit from Blur/Displacement miss chances?

Thanks!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well, it depends what you mean.

"If the attacker hits, the defender must make a miss chance percentile roll to avoid being struck."

The initial touch attack to start a grapple suffers the 50% miss chance.

If you are grappling and attempt to strike with a light weapon, you suffer the 50% miss chance.

If you simply use the "Damage opponent" option, there is no attack roll, only an opposed grapple check. The condition "If the attacker hits" is irrelevant, so the miss chance never comes into play.

-Hyp.

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

Thanks Hyp!

Here's another question - can a Blinking character be grappled and held, even though they are slipping in and out of the prime?

Thanks again!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Here's another question - can a Blinking character be grappled and held, even though they are slipping in and out of the prime?

While blinking, you can step through (but not see through) solid objects. For each 5 feet of solid material you walk through, there is a 50% chance that you become material. If this occurs, you are shunted off to the nearest open space and take 1d6 points of damage per 5 feet so traveled. You can move at only three-quarters speed (because movement on the Ethereal Plane is at half speed, and you spend about half your time there and half your time material.)

So it looks like if someone grapples you, you can just walk through them.

However, you can't do it with a 5' step, so you'd provoke AoOs from anyone else who threatens you for leaving a threatened square.

(On the Prime, you're grappled, and on the Ethereal, you're restricted to half speed, so on neither plane are you able to take a 5' step...)

-Hyp.

 

[Gort]

Blink is one complicated spell. The rogue in my party is gonna pick up a sword that'll let him do it, so he can always sneak attack.

Boy, is THAT gonna be confusing...

 

[hong]

If you simply use the "Damage opponent" option, there is no attack roll, only an opposed grapple check. The condition "If the attacker hits" is irrelevant, so the miss chance never comes into play.

But a grapple check is an attack roll....

 

[mikebr99]

Blink is one complicated spell. The rogue in my party is gonna pick up a sword that'll let him do it, so he can always sneak attack.

Boy, is THAT gonna be confusing...

And hopefully more expensive then a ring...

Mike

 

[sledged]

But a grapple check is an attack roll....

It's not an attack roll, "A grapple check is like a melee attack roll." (p156 PHB, first column, first paragraph) Though you could infer that since it's like an attack roll it's subject to the usual limitations. However, I'd imagine grappling an invisible/blured/displaced opponent puts you in a position where you know exaclty where your opponent so it would negate any chance of missing due to concealment.

 

[hong]

It's not an attack roll, "A grapple check is like a melee attack roll." (p156 PHB, first column, first paragraph) Though you could infer that since it's like an attack roll it's subject to the usual limitations. However, I'd imagine grappling an invisible/blured/displaced opponent puts you in a position where you know exaclty where your opponent so it would negate any chance of missing due to concealment.

Grabbing a quote from Google....

From: Bradd W. Szonye (bradd+news@szonye.com)
Subject: Re: Big creatures grabbing small ones & Tentacles
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Date: 2004-03-23 18:05:02 PST


Bradd wrote:
>> With the correction above, the pixie would still need to roll a natural
>> 20 to win the check, at which point the dragon's roll is irrelevant,
>> because grapple checks are attack rolls, and 20 always succeeds. That's
>> actually the bigger problem here: The "20 always hits" rule would make
>> it possible for even a stock, 4th-level pixie to pin the dragon.

Justisaur wrote:
> Grapple *CHECK*. Not Grapple Attack, or Grapple Save.. It's opposed
> to boot.

All of the usual attack roll modifiers apply: Weapon Focus, iterative
modifiers, secondary weapon modifiers, etc. Plus, it's based on Base
Attack Bonus. Most importantly, the D&D 3.0 FAQ stated:

Q: When rolling opposed attack rolls (such as in a grapple or a
disarm attempt), does a natural 1 mean automatic failure as it does
for a normal attack roll?

A: For the attacker (that is, the character trying to disarm a foe
or accomplish something with a grapple check) a natural 1 fails and
a natural 20 succeeds, no matter what the defender rolls. Although
the defender s roll is called an opposed attack roll, the defender
is really just setting the DC for the attacker: 1s and 20s aren t
special for the defender ....

All of the foregoing assumes that you are indeed making an opposed
attack roll, which is subject to automatic success or failure.
Checks are not subject to automatic success or failure. For example,
if you are making an opposed check (as you would when making a Hide
check opposed by a foe s Spot check), a roll of 1 or 20 has no
special significance.

The last paragraph distinguishes between opposed attack rolls and other
kinds of opposed checks. The key thing is that the natural 20 rule only
applies to attacks (regardless of whether they're opposed rolls). The
saving throw for an attack spell, the attack roll for a melee attack,
and the grapple check for a pin are all rolls to resolve attacks, so the
nat 20/1 rule applies to all of them.

I'm not sure whether the rule applies to grapple checks or Escape Artist
checks made to escape from a grapple, though. It's not an attack, but
the former uses an attack action, and both serve much the same purpose
as a saving throw.

Basically, a grapple check has all the attributes of an attack roll. All the usual modifiers apply, and most importantly, the natural 20/natural 1 rule applies. The latter doesn't apply to most d20-based rolls in D&D, but it _does_ apply to attack rolls and saving throws.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc.

 

[sledged]

Which also raises the question is the kensai's withstand ability subject to the 1/20 rule since it takes the place of a save, or part of the purpose of the Withstand ability that 1/20 doesn't apply?