D&D 5E (2014) Grappling Questions

[jaelis]

If there is one thing that I would like cleaned up in 5e, it is grappling.

What don't you like? Myself, I appreciate the simplicity compared to past versions.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

What don't you like? Myself, I appreciate the simplicity compared to past versions.

The big problem is that, due to poor design priorities, most monsters lack skill proficiencies. As a result, a barbarian - or even a rogue - can easily keep an ogre held to the ground with one hand and prevent it from ever getting up.

The related problem is that they let you use a skill check in a combat capacity, where the rules regarding skills are much less restrictive than the rules regarding attack bonuses.

 

[Xeviat]

Attacks should always oppose defenses. Grapple should be athletics vs Str or Dex save. Doesn't help some monsters, though, who lack save proficiencies too. But, I also advocate for changing save proficiencies too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

The big problem is that, due to poor design priorities, most monsters lack skill proficiencies. As a result, a barbarian - or even a rogue - can easily keep an ogre held to the ground with one hand and prevent it from ever getting up.

The related problem is that they let you use a skill check in a combat capacity, where the rules regarding skills are much less restrictive than the rules regarding attack bonuses.

So grappling it a problem because it lets martial characters have nice things, right?

 

[Phazonfish]

What don't you like? Myself, I appreciate the simplicity compared to past versions.

This. 110%. I mean, older editions weren't just bad, they were infamous.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrapplingWithGrapplingRules

 

[redkobold]

The big problem is that, due to poor design priorities, most monsters lack skill proficiencies. As a result, a barbarian - or even a rogue - can easily keep an ogre held to the ground with one hand and prevent it from ever getting up.

Being grappled would only keep the ogre from moving. In the mean time, he can beat the crap out of the barbarian or rogue holding him. The ogre will get a +4 on his opposed check. I do wish that the MM provided a proficiency bonus for creatures however.

 

[redkobold]

What don't you like? Myself, I appreciate the simplicity compared to past versions.

I appreciate the simplicity but feel that it is a bit underdeveloped or not properly communicated. The Tavern Brawler and Grappler Feats don't work all that well and had errors in them that had to be addressed by errata which makes me think it did not get too much playtesting evaluaation.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

So grappling it a problem because it lets martial characters have nice things, right?

This isn't an issue of disparity between martial classes and magical classes. This is an issue of disparity between PCs and NPCs.

There's nothing wrong with martial characters having nice things, but it cheapens the whole experience when those nice things that they have are simply an exploit of the poorly-implemented skill system.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Being grappled would only keep the ogre from moving. In the mean time, he can beat the crap out of the barbarian or rogue holding him. The ogre will get a +4 on his opposed check. I do wish that the MM provided a proficiency bonus for creatures however.

Not if the ogre is knocked prone, first. Being grappled sets your speed to zero, which means it can't stand from prone, which means all of its attacks are at disadvantage and it will effectively never hit anything. It would have to break the grapple before it can attempt to stand, which isn't something it can do, because of the faulty skill rules.

Granted, that's more of an issue with the fighter, since - in another case of poor judgment on the part of the designers - they can substitute shove attempts instead of weapon attacks on a one-for-one basis. A mid-level fighter can knock an ogre prone, hold them on the ground with one hand, and still make an attack - all in one round, without spending any resources.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Being grappled would only keep the ogre from moving. In the mean time, he can beat the crap out of the barbarian or rogue holding him.

QFT. Grappling is not magic - all it does it stop a foe from moving. While grappled you can attack, talk, cast spells, use items, and so on.

When grappled, you can drop prone. This might be a benefit if the grappler has lots of friends with ranged weapons. You can't, however, stand up again until the grapple ends.

I do wish that the MM provided a proficiency bonus for creatures however.

You can work it out (but it is a bit tedious). The number of Hit Dice determines it's level, you can then refer to the table in the PHB to get the proficiency bonus. You could also look at the attack bonus, though those numbers are sometimes a bit more complex.

E.g. Bugbear (DM Basic Rules v0.5 page 13).
Its Hit Points are 5d8+5 which means it is a level 5 medium creature with a CON bonus of +1. Proficiency Bonus will be +3.
Its Attack Bonus is +4. Subtracting the STR bonus of +2 gives a Proficiency Bonus of +2.
So, +2 or +3, which is correct? The one from Hit Dice is correct, as the Attack Bonus is modified by the creatures Challenge Rating.

Some monsters have Athletics proficiency (there are 5 in the DM's Basic Rules). If they don't, their grapple escape is the highest of STR and DEX mod.