Grappling with Grappling
- Thread starter Mark
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Merkuri
Explorer
Our group uses the grapple rules as-is and uses them sparingly.
Like others have said, grappling with large creatures is basically a death sentence (or a no-fun sentence) for the PCs. You usually have to hope the big guy rolls very bad and you roll very good at the same time or you have to hope somebody has Freedom of Movement prepped. I wish there were more options for people in grapples that didn't require succeeding on a grapple check. Right now if you're grappled by something big you either have to find some way out of the grapple or do nothing. Doing anything else is just dumb because it'll give you no advantage or it'll require several grapple checks when you have a very low chance of succeeding on even one check.
Like others have said, grappling with large creatures is basically a death sentence (or a no-fun sentence) for the PCs. You usually have to hope the big guy rolls very bad and you roll very good at the same time or you have to hope somebody has Freedom of Movement prepped. I wish there were more options for people in grapples that didn't require succeeding on a grapple check. Right now if you're grappled by something big you either have to find some way out of the grapple or do nothing. Doing anything else is just dumb because it'll give you no advantage or it'll require several grapple checks when you have a very low chance of succeeding on even one check.
WhatGravitas
Explorer
When I run them, my monsters always take the -20 penalty to "just" constrict and still being able to do something more useful. Makes it less static and gives PC a chance to escape.starwed said:
I think that's the only point of the absurdly high grapple modifiers. But still not very fun.
Cheers, LT.
I think I've never ruled it completely correct. When reading the rules after a session I always find something I didn't do correctly.
After buying the Rules Compendium I almost got it right for the first time...it was also the first time I have used the pin option and was a bit shocked at how incredibly effective it was. None of the pcs in my group have invested skill points in Escape Artist. They really only survived all because the psion immediately dimension-doored away.
I only use it when a monster has Improved Grab and it's important for the monsters combat tactics.
After buying the Rules Compendium I almost got it right for the first time...it was also the first time I have used the pin option and was a bit shocked at how incredibly effective it was. None of the pcs in my group have invested skill points in Escape Artist. They really only survived all because the psion immediately dimension-doored away.
I only use it when a monster has Improved Grab and it's important for the monsters combat tactics.
frankthedm
First Post
Grappling was realistically brutal. Human flesh is pretty soft, all a big monster big monster should have to is pick a PC up and start squeezing out the victim’s HP like water from a sponge. The Human is going to have squat to say about it as his blood and organs will be gushing out his mouth.
There are feats that allow a PC to be a devastating grappler. One of my players had his feats so well stacked (justifiably - he was a Half-drow slave in the Underdark, having fought his way out of the slave-pits - he became a personal guard) while on a trip through the UD, he ended up fighting a 9HD Cave giant, and grappled(!) him to the ground, and killed him.
Improved Unarmed Combat, Improved Grapple, I THINK he had Close-Quarters fighting (or something) some ability that made him effectively one-size larger, he had another feat that increased his unarmed damage to 1d6. He was specialized in Unarmed combat.
He was 7th lvl. Now it might have seemed min-maxy - but the course of the campaign really justified his feats. I pounded him and my players (well those that weren't actually Drow) mercilessly as slaves in the pits. They had to fight for food, water, *everything* I wanted them to feel that pain and humiliation (which brought a *lot* of laughs at times around the table) of living the deperate life of the slave. Which lasted for the first six-levels of the game. By 7th he could pretty much take anyone down and break them. It was cool...
Until the Giant encounter...
Improved Unarmed Combat, Improved Grapple, I THINK he had Close-Quarters fighting (or something) some ability that made him effectively one-size larger, he had another feat that increased his unarmed damage to 1d6. He was specialized in Unarmed combat.
He was 7th lvl. Now it might have seemed min-maxy - but the course of the campaign really justified his feats. I pounded him and my players (well those that weren't actually Drow) mercilessly as slaves in the pits. They had to fight for food, water, *everything* I wanted them to feel that pain and humiliation (which brought a *lot* of laughs at times around the table) of living the deperate life of the slave. Which lasted for the first six-levels of the game. By 7th he could pretty much take anyone down and break them. It was cool...
Until the Giant encounter...
Grapple has been a pain in the arse. The only time we've used them is with one pc who was a warforged fighter with Improved Grapple, Spiked Body, Jaws of Death, and a freakish strength. We called him the meat grinder.
But again, if your character or monster is built for it, you win. If not, you lose.
There is really no fun in it, so we've quietly forgotten that those rules exist in the game. I'll admit that it is one of the few draws of 4e.
But again, if your character or monster is built for it, you win. If not, you lose.
There is really no fun in it, so we've quietly forgotten that those rules exist in the game. I'll admit that it is one of the few draws of 4e.
cthulhu_duck
First Post
The rules could perhaps be written more clearly.
This is what we've found as well.
If the PCs' adversaries are built to grapple, then only the PCs who are built to grapple have a chance - and much the same vice versa. Give the party grappler flight for example, and any BBEG opponent I might field is almost certainly a target and can be taken out quickly.
Grymar said:
This is what we've found as well.
If the PCs' adversaries are built to grapple, then only the PCs who are built to grapple have a chance - and much the same vice versa. Give the party grappler flight for example, and any BBEG opponent I might field is almost certainly a target and can be taken out quickly.
Olaf the Stout
Legend
My personal experience with the grapple rules is that they are a pain to use. Every time grappling came up in game we would all break out the PHB and read how exactly grapple worked. Most times I think we still got it wrong. I have the Rules Compendium now so things are a little clearer but I still have to look grappling up every time.
I've finally got my head around Improved Grab and Constrict) and how they work (they works slightly different to normal grappling). Next on my list of things to better understand is other options in a grapple like drawing weapons, moving the grapple, etc.,
I haven't encountered the "large monster which is impossible to beat in a grapple" situation yet but I imagine that it is because our group has shied away from grappling as much as possible so we didn't slow the game to a halt while we looked up the rules again.
There was an interesting grappling encounter in our last gaming session where the party discovered a good tactic for stopping grappling. The party encountered a Grell and it got a hold of the party Fighter and hoisted him in the air. The Conjurer cast a spell which makes you nauseated on a failed save. Being nauseated limits you to only Move actions. As a result the Grell couldn't move the grapple or anything else. The only damage it was doing was a small amount of constriction damage each round. Meanwhile the Fighter had several rounds to escape the grapple, which he succeeded in doing after a couple of rounds.
Olaf the Stout
I've finally got my head around Improved Grab and Constrict) and how they work (they works slightly different to normal grappling). Next on my list of things to better understand is other options in a grapple like drawing weapons, moving the grapple, etc.,
I haven't encountered the "large monster which is impossible to beat in a grapple" situation yet but I imagine that it is because our group has shied away from grappling as much as possible so we didn't slow the game to a halt while we looked up the rules again.
There was an interesting grappling encounter in our last gaming session where the party discovered a good tactic for stopping grappling. The party encountered a Grell and it got a hold of the party Fighter and hoisted him in the air. The Conjurer cast a spell which makes you nauseated on a failed save. Being nauseated limits you to only Move actions. As a result the Grell couldn't move the grapple or anything else. The only damage it was doing was a small amount of constriction damage each round. Meanwhile the Fighter had several rounds to escape the grapple, which he succeeded in doing after a couple of rounds.
Olaf the Stout
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