Great Cleave + True Strike

[Bouncer]

Hi,

I'm not sure how to interpret the rules here. Cleave/Great cleave gives extra attack(s) with your LAST bonus. True Strike gives +20 to your next attack. Does this mean that you can Great Cleave with +20 to die roll as long as you drop your enemy with one blow?


CLEAVE [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack.
Benefit: If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per round.

True Strike
You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during your next attack. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target.

Thanks
Bouncer

 

[Telperion]

Hi,

Does this mean that you can Great Cleave with +20 to die roll as long as you drop your enemy with one blow?


CLEAVE [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack.
Benefit: If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per round.

True Strike
You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during your next attack. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target.

That's a good question, but I would say: no.
The idea behind True Strike is that you can make one attack roll that is really good, and then you are left with your regular attack modifiers. Although Cleave and Great Cleave would seem to give you the same kind of strike again I seriously doubt these Feats were designed to duplicate spell effects.

You hit with your first attack, and the target goes down.
True Strike is discharged and the effect ends.
Your next attack, which would be that nearly instantaneous Cleave/Great Cleave, is made with your previous attack bonus minus the spell effect, which has already drained away.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You hit with your first attack, and the target goes down.
True Strike is discharged and the effect ends.

Confirmed in the 3E Main FAQ.

There's dissent as to the exact meaning of the phrase, but I've found the most consistent way to read "at the same bonus" is as a contrast to other feats that grant an extra attack "at your highest base attack bonus".

If you have a BAB of +11/+6/+1, you make three attacks at +11 plus applicable bonuses and penalties, +6 plus applicable bonuses and penalties, and +1 plus applicable bonuses and penalties. If you drop someone with the +6 attack, you can Cleave into someone else at the same bonus - +6 - plus applicable bonuses or penalties.

Those applicable modifiers might be different on the Cleave attack. For example, if you kill the hobgoblin from atop your warhorse with your +2 Goblinbane sword, your applicable modifiers are:

+1: higher ground
+2: enhancement bonus
+2: Bane
+3: Strength bonus
+20: True Strike

... all added to your +6 BAB.

When you Cleave into his ogre companion, you don't get the higher ground bonus, since the ogre is Large, and you don't get the Bane bonus, since he's not a goblin, and you don't get the +20, since your True Strike has discharged. But you do get +2 for flanking, since your buddy the rogue is opposite you.

So to the same bonus, +6, you add:

+2: enhancement bonus
+2: flanking
+3: Strength bonus

-Hyp.

 

[Bouncer]

Logical and flawless ruling as far as I can see.

Thanks for the help.
Bouncer

 

[Hypersmurf]

Logical and flawless ruling as far as I can see.

Glad it works for you - bear in mind, there is room in the wording for debate, since it does say "same bonus" rather than "same base attack bonus". The results can be somewhat nonsensical if you don't take the "base attack" as implicit, but strictly as written, nonsensical results is a valid interpretation

-Hyp.

 

[woolybearundertaker]

since you seem to have resolved this I hope you don t mind a little thread-jacking.

How does Power Attack work when thrown into the mix? I ve always interpreted it to mean that if, using Hyper Smurf's example, you took a -2 to power attack the goblin, you would also HAVE to take -2 and power attack the ogre.

If you hit the ogre too, I would also apply the damage bonu from the Power Attack.

Re-reading the feat I m not sure how I came up with this. I guess since, according to the fluff, it s the same swing that dropped the goblin being carried into the ogre I thought this ruling was right.

Any thoughts?

 

[Darklone]

Power Attack counts explicitely for one round.

 

[woolybearundertaker]

Doh!

I feel pretty dumb.

Thanks though Darklone!