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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8097907" data-attributes="member: 16814">This makes a hash of the other rules, though.  If there's no default to notice, what is the default?  Not noticing?  Noticing 50% of creatures?  I mean, what I'm saying is that, all things being equal, you will notice other creatures.  This is what default means -- the resting state, or normal assumption under normal conditions.  This really shouldn't even be controversial in the slightest -- your edit is nonsensical.  If you don't use noticing as a default, your game looks very different from any other game I'm aware of.  I'm 100% positive that you actually use noticing other creatures as the default position in your game, but, for some reason, are thinking that agreeing with that statement means accepting that you must rule this to be true, which I've taken great pains to say is not what default means.  So, I'm at a loss as to why this is the sticking point.The sticking point, if there is any (I don't really see one, but you keep responding to me in the negative), is in what changes the default.  I look at Invisibility,  and it doesn't change the default explicitly, but instead provides either new options to do so with established means (hiding) and also provides a new input to the normal decision process about what's going on in a scene and making rulings.  The default is still that you're noticed, but there's not additional reasons why that might be changed.  If nothing else exist, then invisibility alone does not alter the default assumption (which I've said multiple times). However, invisibility can certainly take a situation that wouldn't normally deviate from the default and cause ruling otherwise.  This is where we might disagree -- what causes are sufficient to rule otherwise -- but that's not what we're arguing about here.  Defaults are just baselines.  Baselines are just where you start, not where you end. If you don't think that the normal baseline is that you notice other creatures, then we violently disagree about how the game should be run.  And, point of fact, you have less evidence for your position than I have for mine in the rules, and mine is largely inferred from existing rules.  You're welcome to claim some other position, where noticing isn't the baseline assumption that things like hiding change so that you don't have to do any work to explain why invisibility makes you hidden, but don't claim the rules say anything like this at all -- they lean strongly in the direction that you do normally notice other creatures and it takes an effort to alter that.</blockquote>

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