Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8097911" data-attributes="member: 72555">Now in 4e, it was true that you know where creatures are in combat unless they are hidden from you.In 5e, if there are a bunch of monsters bashing down a door who aren't hidden from you, you probably know ... there are a bunch of creatures bashing down that door, unless things are noisy locally.There is no reason to think you know how many of them, where exactly they are located, etc.&nbsp; You can hear the thump, thump, thump of the door being bashed down; they are definitely not hiding.Now, suppose there is a hole in the door, but that hole has the darkness spell covering it.&nbsp; So you can't see through the door.You could make an attack through that hole (possibly with a melee weapon), and if there are monsters there, you'd roll to hit.&nbsp; With disadvantage, because you cannot see them.&nbsp; Even though you don't know what square they are in.If they stop bashing and hide, you now only have the information of where they where before they hid.&nbsp; And now you have to guess where they are in order to attack them.&nbsp; If you guess wrong, you miss without rolling.---Poping the stack, the annoying imp goes invisible and flies away.&nbsp; You can shoot at the imp at disadvantage even if you don't know where it is.&nbsp; Make an attack roll at disadvantage.&nbsp; If you hit, you guessed where it is and shot it.&nbsp; If you miss, you failed to guess where it is, and your shot goes wide.If the imp takes the hide action, you now first have to guess where the imp is before making that a shot.&nbsp; If you guess wrong, you auto-miss.&nbsp; If you guess right, you attack at disadvantage.&nbsp; You only know if you guess right if you hit.&nbsp; (but you can see your attack roll, and that might give you some info)---This prevents invisibilty from being a &quot;free hide&quot; -- an unhidden invisible creature can be attacked without having to guess where it is, so not as good as hidden -- without giving characters echolocation.&nbsp; It does mean that creatures that attack hidden foes can use the very attack to figure out where the enemy is!(Note that many spells require you to be able to see the creature you attack; they won't work on invisible foes, even if they aren't hidden or if you guess where they are.&nbsp; And fireball requires you to target an area, not a creature; even an unhidden invisible creature can require a guess.)---Is that sensible?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 8097911, member: 72555"] Now in 4e, it was true that you know where creatures are in combat unless they are hidden from you. In 5e, if there are a bunch of monsters bashing down a door who aren't hidden from you, you probably know ... there are a bunch of creatures bashing down that door, unless things are noisy locally. There is no reason to think you know how many of them, where exactly they are located, etc. You can hear the thump, thump, thump of the door being bashed down; they are definitely not hiding. Now, suppose there is a hole in the door, but that hole has the darkness spell covering it. So you can't see through the door. You could make an attack through that hole (possibly with a melee weapon), and if there are monsters there, you'd roll to hit. With disadvantage, because you cannot see them. Even though you don't know what square they are in. If they stop bashing and hide, you now only have the information of where they where [B]before[/B] they hid. And now you have to guess where they are in order to attack them. If you guess wrong, you miss without rolling. --- Poping the stack, the annoying imp goes invisible and flies away. You can shoot at the imp at disadvantage even if you don't know where it is. Make an attack roll at disadvantage. If you hit, you guessed where it is and shot it. If you miss, you failed to guess where it is, and your shot goes wide. If the imp takes the hide action, you now first have to guess where the imp is before making that a shot. If you guess wrong, you auto-miss. If you guess right, you attack at disadvantage. You only know if you guess right if you hit. (but you can see your attack roll, and that might give you some info) --- This prevents invisibilty from being a "free hide" -- an unhidden invisible creature can be attacked without having to guess where it is, so not as good as hidden -- without giving characters echolocation. It does mean that creatures that attack hidden foes can use the very attack to figure out where the enemy is! (Note that many spells require you to be able to see the creature you attack; they won't work on invisible foes, even if they aren't hidden or if you guess where they are. And fireball requires you to target an area, not a creature; even an unhidden invisible creature can require a guess.) --- Is that sensible? [/QUOTE]

Verification