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<blockquote data-quote="Swarmkeeper" data-source="post: 8098701" data-attributes="member: 6921763">You talk about stealth checks in combat and when I ask what the stealth check is for, if not to achieve the benefits of the Hide action, you say &quot;it's not about being stealthy.&quot;&nbsp; Wha?????&nbsp; Let me ask the very specific question again:What is the invisible character doing that is stealthy - or, if you prefer, requiring a Dex(Stealth) check - in combat if not trying to achieve the benefits gained by the Hide action?I understand.&nbsp; You feel that environmental conditions may sometimes eliminate the need to be stealthy in order to be unperceived by an enemy.&nbsp; I'm not sure anyone is arguing against that.Let's say the situation is a combat where there are no special environmental effects (fog, spell effects, full cover, etc) that affect perception.&nbsp; There's just the combat noise that could be a factor in hearing someone who is invisible.&nbsp; At what noise level do you draw the line for an invisible creature to be heard or not, assuming they are not actively trying to be stealthy?&nbsp; Are they always unheard if it is a battle with armored combatants with metal weapons?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Swarmkeeper, post: 8098701, member: 6921763"] You talk about stealth checks in combat and when I ask what the stealth check is for, if not to achieve the benefits of the Hide action, you say "it's not about being stealthy." Wha????? Let me ask the very specific question again: What is the invisible character doing that is stealthy - or, if you prefer, requiring a Dex(Stealth) check - in combat if not trying to achieve the benefits gained by the Hide action? I understand. You feel that environmental conditions may sometimes eliminate the need to be stealthy in order to be unperceived by an enemy. I'm not sure anyone is arguing against that. Let's say the situation is a combat where there are no special environmental effects (fog, spell effects, full cover, etc) that affect perception. There's just the combat noise that could be a factor in hearing someone who is invisible. At what noise level do you draw the line for an invisible creature to be heard or not, assuming they are not actively trying to be stealthy? Are they always unheard if it is a battle with armored combatants with metal weapons? [/QUOTE]

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