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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8099460" data-attributes="member: 16814">Because of where the judgement call is made.&nbsp; Here's an analogy -- in football, a first down is when the offense moves the ball at least 10 yards upfield from the location at the start of the 1st down.&nbsp; This is the baseline.&nbsp; Most of the time it's pretty clear if the ball is under that or over that -- situation where everyone would agree one way or the other.&nbsp; There's a judgement call when you're nearby, based on where an official spots the ball, that could result in being over or under the line.&nbsp; This largely encapsulates my position.&nbsp; [USER=6801845]@Oofta[/USER]'s position, as presented, is that it's always up the official when a first down occurs -- there is no baseline of 10 yards, it's just whenever the official determines that this is good enough.&nbsp; So, sure, there are judgement calls in both, but it's frankly ridiculous to say that because there are judgement calls the approaches are the same.EDIT:&nbsp; I added upfield and 1st down for clarities.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8099460, member: 16814"] Because of where the judgement call is made. Here's an analogy -- in football, a first down is when the offense moves the ball at least 10 yards upfield from the location at the start of the 1st down. This is the baseline. Most of the time it's pretty clear if the ball is under that or over that -- situation where everyone would agree one way or the other. There's a judgement call when you're nearby, based on where an official spots the ball, that could result in being over or under the line. This largely encapsulates my position. [USER=6801845]@Oofta[/USER]'s position, as presented, is that it's always up the official when a first down occurs -- there is no baseline of 10 yards, it's just whenever the official determines that this is good enough. So, sure, there are judgement calls in both, but it's frankly ridiculous to say that because there are judgement calls the approaches are the same. EDIT: I added upfield and 1st down for clarities. [/QUOTE]

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