Greater Than the Sum of Its Parts

[ardentmoth]

This is a question to open a discussion about Gestalt character design.

Hypothetically:

What if one were to Gestalt-Class a Necromancer and an Evoker.

Possibilities:
1) Both are wizards.
--Can't be done.

2) They are separate kinds of wizards.
--Give double spells and let 'er rip.


Your thoughts?

I also considered a Psion Gestalt; what if a Telekineticist/Egoist combo was requested?

So, is there some rule which states that the player cannot do this, or that if it is done that they lose a great deal of possible power which could have been gained? Is this a house-rules question?

 

[Slaved]

A Specialist Wizard is still a Wizard and an Egoist Psion is still a Psion. You are Normally unable to take a Single Level of a Single Character Class multiple times for a Single Character. Otherwise taking the First Two Levels of Fighter repeatedly would be GREAT!

 

[Kurashu]

The easiest way around this would be to go Warmage//Dread Necromancer, if you were seriously considering a build. =p

But yes, you can't take the same class more than once in order to get multiple benefits, e.g. you can't be Evoker 1//Necromancer 1, Egoist 1//Telekineticist 1, Fighter 1//Fighter 1, et cetera. Gestalt is still bound by the regular rules of the game as well.

 

[ardentmoth]

Alright, thanks for clarifying, I was a bit lost in the weeds lol.

 

[Corsair]

This is a question to open a discussion about Gestalt character design.

Hypothetically:

What if one were to Gestalt-Class a Necromancer and an Evoker.

Possibilities:
1) Both are wizards.
--Can't be done.

2) They are separate kinds of wizards.
--Give double spells and let 'er rip.


Your thoughts?

I also considered a Psion Gestalt; what if a Telekineticist/Egoist combo was requested?

So, is there some rule which states that the player cannot do this, or that if it is done that they lose a great deal of possible power which could have been gained? Is this a house-rules question?

Considering options like psion/wizard, wizard/beguiler, wizard/archivist, etc already exist (or dread necro/sorcerer/warmage for charisma casters), I'm not sure I'd be too concerned about a wizard/wizard.

HOWEVER: The big problem with specialist/specialist is that you gain the benefits of specialization at no cost. What happens when you allow a Focused specialist Conjurer (drop ench, transmutation, necromancy)/ Focused specialist transmuter (drop illusion, evocation, conjuration)? Suddenly you have a wizard/wizard with 4 extra spell slots per level compared to a generalist wizard/generalist wizard with no drawbacks, since his opposite wizard classes cover the holes.

So summary: wizard/wizard fine. Specialist/Specialist not fine.

 

[ardentmoth]

really? I would think that a specialist in your scenario wouldn't be able to gestalt with a forbidden specialist. Conjurer/Illusionist maybe, which seems to make a gestalt specialist even -more- viable than a gestalt generalist combo (though from what has been said already, apparently it does not make RAW sense to allow it at all).

Interesting logic though, thanks for yet another take on the idea. ^_^

 

[VanRichten]

Well closest I could think of would be a Sorcerer/Necromancer. Go with nothing but evocation on the sorcerer. Yeah you got intelligence and charisma but it would work.

 

[Nifft]

RAW, you aren't allowed to take the same class twice.

To make a 1st-level gestalt character, choose two standard classes. (You can also choose any of the variant classes, though you can’t combine two versions of the same class.)

IMHO, even if it were allowed, it shouldn't be done -- you'd be throwing away a major benefit of Gestalt, which is durability. Having d4 HD and only one good save is sucky.

Cheers, -- N

 

[glass]

HOWEVER: The big problem with specialist/specialist is that you gain the benefits of specialization at no cost.

No cost? You are paying a huge cost by not having a class that adds something more useful (like BAB, fort save, or hit points).

Anyway, not allowed per RAW. I don't think it would be a huge balance issue if you did allow it (in fact, it would be weak), but I wouldn't because it would just be too confusing. Simulate it with wizard/psion or wizard/sorcerer instead.


glass.

 

[Folly]

RAW, you aren't allowed to take the same class twice. IMHO, even if it were allowed, it shouldn't be done -- you'd be throwing away a major benefit of Gestalt, which is durability. Having d4 HD and only one good save is sucky.

Cheers, -- N

This is what was running through my mind as well.