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Greedy Players and the Lust for Treasure!

kouk

First Post
Bear with me, this might get long.

Sometimes, you just have to tell the players: "No killing each other or stealing from each other in this game (anymore)." That alone is usually enough to get players to stop fighting, because if they fight each other then you just stop the session and don't adjudicate the fight. If they just want to have practice fights against different characters, tell them to do it on their own time, not during the session. Now, most groups don't need to be told this, but apparently yours does.

That's the simplest solution, but not always one people like. Sometimes sacrifices like "cooperation" have to be made though to promote the better enjoyment of the limited session you guys have to play.


Now for the more elaborate and subtle solutions. I will just present a variety of possible answers for you, you can use one, some, all, none, whatever:

Ask them why they are killing each other over loot. Emphasize that it is a cooperative game, and that the more they work together, the more treasure they will be finding for everyone -- so it is really a waste of time to fight over the bits they have already found.


Why do you think they are like this? Are they all just goofing around? Sometimes that's OK for a game, but often at least some members would like to play the "normal" way.

It's possible they are starved for "action" and when not presented with good targets to kill, they turn on themselves. Make sure they have a clear way forward and that there is promise for fighting and looting. Also make sure they know that it will be tough to overcome those challenges.

Make sure that all party members are useful. Vary your encounters so that each character gets a chance to shine. Lots of minions every now and then for the Wizard, Brutes with poor AC for the Strikers, Elites and Solos for the Defenders. Also put some traps in every now and again for the high-perception thievery characters. You don't want anyone to feel unnecessary to the group's successes.

Consider having them make shared backstories, such that they were all friends from a village, or are all working for a good-ish organization that won't look kindly on pettiness or murder. If their characters are friends as opposed to perfect strangers just adventuring for loot, they will be less likely to kill each other and more likely to share.

Give them quests to go on with goals, not just "kill things and take their stuff" dungeon crawls. It can greatly change the mindset of the players by making it a cooperative endeavor as opposed to a free-for-all. Make sure there is a good reward to the quest for each of them individually for when they return successful (don't make a big pile of money, make sure it's a certain salary each).

Tell them you would prefer they cooperate because it is reducing your enjoyment of the game, and that you think they would have a better time working together rather than fighting.


Forcibly institute a loot system for the group if they are unable to come up with a fair one. You might say all cash (including art objects) is split evenly (overage gets put aside in a shared account until it can be shared evenly), and that items should go to the player who needs it most. If they are in a party mindset, they will be able to determine who needs what the most.

Make sure that the found loot is fairly specific to individual characters. If the Ranger is the only one who uses bows, then the magical bow would obviously go to him. If the Fighter is the only one using scale armor, then found magic scale obviously goes to him. That should reduce stealing because there is little to gain by taking items you don't/can't use.

Try not letting them sell magic items. If nobody will buy, then there is no incentive to hoard items to themselves. Let them disenchant the items for residuum and make some new things that are useful, but don't indulge in allowing them to steal for profit.

I'm sure there are lots of other solutions too.


Now, as an aside, it is really very hard to kill your own teammate unless you just withhold treatment to a dying character. PCs don't die until they reach their bloodied value expressed as a negative number; if they had 50HP normally, they aren't dead until -25 or until they fail 3 death saving throws while "dying."
 

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Solodan

First Post
Play with the RPGA Living Forgotten Realms system for loot - its pretty easy and works well.

In your scenario - I'd have a witness see one player kill the other. If they are only level 2, odds are the local constable could wipe the floor with them.

Now you have 2 dead characters (one hanged). See if you have 1 or two friends who can fill out your group and don't invite the instigators back. If only one of the guys what being a jerk, the local priest can probably res. the other guy. My guess is that if you kick someone out of the group for that type of behavior (which I would highly recommend) everyone else will shape up quickly.
 

robgmsft

First Post
Why not borrow a system from MMO guilds?

Here's how it works - every player keeps track of a loot score, start everyone at zero with a small randomized tie-breaker amount added on. Let's say you have 4 players. When a magic item is found, the player with the highest loot score gets first dibs on whether they want the item.

Each player in order of loot score gets an option, if no one wants the item, immediately 'melt it down' for cash (1/5 value of item in 4E) and distribute the money. If there's a wizard who can melt it for arcane energy that works too.

If a player on their turn decides they want the item (in this example the 360gp magic item), then that player subtracts 360 from their loot score (negative numbers are OK) and all of the other players add 360/3 (number of players not getting the loot) to their loot score.

So, at the beginning you had:

A: 4
B: 3
C: 2
D: 1

The numbers 1-4 were assigned after each player rolled highest, this is only necessary at the very beginning. The players find a 360gp magic dagger and a 120gp magic shield. A is a wizard, so skips out on choosing. B is a fighter and selects the shield. (only one item at a time can be selected, then scores are recomputed). So, B gets -120 and the rest get +40

A: 44
C: 42
D: 41
B: -117

Now the group starts again. A passes, C passes, D chooses the 360gp dagger. D gets -360, everyone else gets +120.

A: 164
C: 162
B: 3
D: -319

This works even if someone misses a session. If the players agree to abide by this system then tell them if they agree to honor it without fighting or stealing, you'll add a random (Level - 2) magic item to any loot horde containing a magic item 50% of the time.

If you want, award small loot score amounts for bringing food, keeping track of notes for the adventure, etc. It won't unbalance the game at all and it will make your life easier.

Good luck!
 

Nail

First Post
2. How do you deal with player characters stealing from each other?
I've been playing D&D for almost 30 years. Your problem is older than that! :)

The best solution is the simplest one: You (the DM) say
"Don't do that in my game."
Period.

If they persist, say it again, and attach whatever penalties seem fair (less future loot or XP). If necessary, write it into your "house rules". Things like "no stealing from other PCs", "no killing other PCs", and "no being a jerk to other PCs" are pretty standard fare in more experienced gaming groups, IME.
 


RyvenCedrylle

First Post
This only happened to me once - we were playing MARVEL, actually, but that's beside the point.

I let the characters fight to the last man, then plot-device killed the last one, janked all their stuff and sent all the players home three hours early.

The importance of the gaming 'social contract' is far more evident when th DM breaks it.

Alternatively, your players really just might like a high body count. May I suggest Call of Cthulu?
 

SadisticFishing

First Post
I haven't read every post, but our answer (that I read on this forum):

Divide the treasure at the end of the level. Sure, it's metagaming, but so is treasure.

Whenever the group finds a magic item, whoever can use it takes it. By the way the rules work, at the end of the level, everyone but 1 now has a magic item. That guy gets enough money from the leftover pot to buy a magic item of the group's level, and the rest of the gold is split evenly between all players.

Everyone gets a magic item a level, and the one with the lowest level item gets to pick it himself. Sounds fair to me! Works incredibly, as long as no magic items the group doesn't want are given. And if that happens, the whole fourth edition treasure system falls apart anyways.
 

HealingAura

First Post
Saeviomagy: Two of the player characters are unaligned (the rogue and the ranger) and the wizard is good, but it feels more like having a group of Evil and Chaotic Evil characters... and I am actually not ok with it.

Byronic: The players themselves are not greedy, they just play their characters as if they were greedy. It feels like their way of thinking is "Why should I give this sneaky guy this shiny dagger that I found but can't use?", when it should be "I can't use this dagger so lets just give it to this sneaky guy who will benefit from it more than anyone else". When I suggested that the ranger will just simply sell it to the rogue and get more GP than he'd get from selling it in a store, the rogue refused and then stole it from the ranger.

kuonji: I myself as a player hates it when players want to steal stuff from one another. It just feels dumb and pointless to me. Even when I played an Evil character in AD&D I didn't do any of those and my character tried to convince the other players not to do it. Maybe I followed the "Saying Yes" DM advice too much and allowed them to do things that they can do, but are not supposed to do (killing each other, stealing from each other, using magic missile to destroy locks, using magic missile to break a huge rock and such).

kouk: Ask them why they are killing each other over loot.
I will have this conversation with them next session. Until the last session they didn't even got to negative HP, but when the wizard claimed his stolen Flaming Long Bow from the ranger (who looted it from his body after the last combat), he had only 10 HP and the ranger shot 2 arrows dealing 28 damage todal (-18 HP = dead).

Make sure they have a clear way forward and that there is promise for fighting and looting.
Oh there are clearly enough fighting and looting in my adventure. If they just continued they'd get more treasure without killing each other.

Make sure that all party members are useful.
All of them feel useful. The rogue is used a lot for opening locked doors and for close combat (because the fourth player who plays the warrior never comes to our sessions). The wizard is the ultimate minion killing machine, and the Ranger is probably the strongest of them in combat.

Consider having them make shared back stories.
No can do. My adventure involves characters from around the world being kidnapped and kept in a cave and now they are trying to escape and investigate who is behind it and why.

Give them quests to go on with goals, not just "kill things and take their stuff" dungeon crawls.
I want to! I really do! But it takes them too much time to get out from this not-so-huge cave (or should I say dungeon) because of wasting time on dividing treasure...

Make sure that the found loot is fairly specific to individual characters
I have already done that. All the things they got so far are a flaming long bow, a duelist's dagger and an orb of inevitable continuance. The warrior would get something if he came to our sessions.

You were right, it really was long, but I thank you for your help :)

Nail: If I see that they are not listening then I'd just have to house rule it like you suggested.

ThirdWizard: I think if I had given them no treasure, then they would have probably killed each other faster just to sell the other characters' organs.

To Drakhar, Solodan, robgmsft and everyone who suggested a way to divide treasure:
The way I am going to propose to divide group treasure is like this (I already mentioned it when I was playing the missing player's warrior character):
1. Divide all GP evenly between all members involved.
2. Throw all items that nobody wants into the Bag of Holding.
2.1. Sell all the content of the Bag of Holding when visiting town and divide the GP evenly between all party members.
3. If a character wants an item he buys it from all the other characters.
3.1. Deciding on a price that is between the normal price and 1/5 of the normal price for the item.
3.2. The character who wanted the item pays 1/(n-1) of the decided price to each other member of the party, where "n" is the number of characters in the group.
4. If two or more characters want the item then the highest bidder gets it.

What do you think?
 

DracoSuave

First Post
Well... it shouldn't really be hard to divvy up treasure -at all-.

You're seeding every magic item for a specific character. If they have trouble getting the dagger to the daggermaster than they're just being greedy idiots. If the fighter starts calling dibs on the exalted chain for the cleric, they're being greedy idiots.

Emphasis on the idiot.

Then divide the rest up evenly. PROBLEM SOLVED
 

ulrikbb

First Post
Yeah, simply telling them to play as a team has worked for my group. Well, actually, I stopped inviting the rogue-loving player who consistently ruined the group's harmony, and THEN it worked fine. In fact, because of that player, and a few others who feel they must fulfill the rogue stereotype by being greedy and semi-evil, I now hate rogues with all my heart. I was delighted that nobody made one for my latest campaign. I've got one in my party now, though, bit the character belongs to a reasonable girl, so I don't expect any trouble with her.
 
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