[Green Ronin/Badaxe Games] Race books: Any power inflation?

[Heretic Apostate]

I remember the Complete Book of Elves. A lot of interesting fluff, followed by some of the munchiest crunch I've seen for xD&D.

Has this been moderated in the whole "xxx & xxx" series of books (Green Ronin) and the Heroes of High Favor (Badaxe Games)? I'm really leaning towards buying these, but don't want to see a book of "Elves are roxxor! They are total 7ee7! Etc..." (Sorry, I don't speak hacker...)

 

[Cergorach]

I remember the Complete Book of Elves. A lot of interesting fluff, followed by some of the munchiest crunch I've seen for xD&D.

Has this been moderated in the whole "xxx & xxx" series of books (Green Ronin) and the Heroes of High Favor (Badaxe Games)? I'm really leaning towards buying these, but don't want to see a book of "Elves are roxxor! They are total 7ee7! Etc..." (Sorry, I don't speak hacker...)

I personally find them a lot less powerhungry then the recent D&D books. Some of the feats in the mini HB where really scarry! Most of the 3.5 prestige classes in the DMG where also pretty scarry. I see the GR books as pretty imaginitive, some things you can expect (lots of bows bows in an elven book), others rock your boat (the elven spear dancer for example).

I would suggest that you read through some of the crunch parts before you buy, your idea of munchy crunch might difer from me...

 

[JoeGKushner]

In my opinion, all options lead to corruption. Not through design. In many cases, the rules are very well written (especially the Dwarf and Elf books from both companies in question here) but they are not alone in their little worlds. I've seen players take X from Y book, A from C book and tie it into deathmaster B, the amalagalam. This is no fault of the original book.

No one can police the entire d20 force. It's always a pick and chose. I find that the Bad Axe Games often have material outside of feats and PrCs that help expand the races. The whole multi-class thing for example, has only really been covered in Dragon magazine outside of Bad Axe. The Green Ronin books usually leave me with a feeling of, "Man, that was good. How can I use that."

 

[Psion]

I would say not. At least not if you don't consider WotC's stuff overpowered

I don't see how anyone could ever acuse Bad Axe of being overpowered. Benjamin Durbin has an attitude that prestige classes shouldn't be more powerful that core classes, even if it is to compensate for weak class combinations, and it shows in the books. I am actually considering powering up some of the classes in the elves book to make them a bit more playable.

Bow & Blade is generally pretty balanced, though I am not fond of their spellblending thing and think it could lead to problems. I also think one PrC, the wildheart fanatic, could be used as a stepping stone to easier entry into other PrCs with it's quick BAB progression. Easily ignored/disallowed. Otherwise, they seem better than WotC. The concept behind the Lifeweaver, for example, seems like a Mystic Theurge concept I would allow... it doesn't give 2/1 level progression, only slightly improved with some additional abilities, which I think is more balanced than the mystic theurge.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I don't see how anyone could ever acuse Bad Axe of being overpowered. Benjamin Durbin has an attitude that prestige classes shouldn't be more powerful that core classes, even if it is to compensate for weak class combinations, and it shows in the books. I am actually considering powering up some of the classes in the elves book to make them a bit more playable.

I am generally pretty stingy with the classes, always preferring to err on the side of "too weak." That said, "mistakes" do happen-- the half-orc Favored of the Eye (barbarian-cleric) is probably too good.

I would honestly say if there is room for munchiness in our books, it is probably in the front sections, where I put a lot of highly customizable rules variants-- the mastercrafting of the dwarves, the animal breeding of the half-orcs, the spell wards and spell design for the elves, and now, the bluffs and dirty tricks for the halflings. As Joe said above, anytime you provide rulesets that encourage min-maxing and an "a la carte" approach to your character, you (the GM) have to police it carefully.

Short answer: No, I don't think there's power creep in Bad Axe's books. From what I know of Green Ronin (staffed, as they are, with WOTC insiders) it would be highly unlikely from their quarter either. "d20 Rules Done Right" is their catchphrase, I believe.

Wulf

 

[Teflon Billy]

I like an use the Bad Axe stuff a lot. I think Wulf and I share a midset on power creep ("better too weak than too strong").

 

[Lalato]

[rant]
You bastages... you make me want to buy more stuff!!!

I hate you all...
[/rant]

Anyway... as I was saying... I wish there weren't so many good d20 products out there. I need to save my money for my forthcoming trip to Thailand. Arrghhh!!!

--sam

 

[The Sigil]

I remember the Complete Book of Elves. A lot of interesting fluff, followed by some of the munchiest crunch I've seen for xD&D.

Has this been moderated in the whole "xxx & xxx" series of books (Green Ronin) and the Heroes of High Favor (Badaxe Games)? I'm really leaning towards buying these, but don't want to see a book of "Elves are roxxor! They are total 7ee7! Etc..." (Sorry, I don't speak hacker...)

Bad Axe games is currently the only company that is on my list of "if they put it out, buy it - sight unseen, subject matter notwithstanding, and skip meals if you have to in order to save the money." That right there should tell you what kind of endorsement they have from me. I find pretty much everything in Bad Axe products can be lifted whole-cloth and dropped right into my campaign, no questions asked.

Green Ronin is good, and I do buy most of their stuff. They are probably my number two company in terms of good, usable stuff (though depending on subject matter, Bastion Press and/or Malhavoc may be 2a). GR (and BP and Malhavoc) usually requires me to knock out one or two pages, or to be careful not to dump "too much" in at once, but there is almost always a lot of good material (though, as an example, I did not elect to include the "elemental elves" - fire elves, metal elves, etc. in my campaign when I picked up Bow & Blade).

Bottom line:

Neither is a bad option at all. If you pressed a gun to my head and asked me which is better, I'd say Bad Axe's HoHF series, but it's a fairly close call.

--The Sigil