Greyhawk being dumped as the core setting in 3.5

[Dinkeldog]

Re: Re: Greyhawk being dumped as the core setting in 3.5

Just FYI, that's Viola! Don't look at me, it's not English.

*snip*

Actually, it's "voila". The viola is an instrument in the string family pitched below a violin and above a violincello.

 

[Maggan]

I don't really care

With the level of support it gets in the core books, it might as well be gone completely from the core rules.

Develop the world seperately, and make the core rules world-independent and world-free.

Just FYI, that's Viola! Don't look at me, it's not English.

And on a second note "voila" is french, and is spelled just like that... "voila".


Bien?

Maggan

 

[Sixchan]

Re: Re: Re: Greyhawk being dumped as the core setting in 3.5

Actually, it's "voila". The viola is an instrument in the string family pitched below a violin and above a violincello.

Just while we're at it...*ahem*...Isn't that a Violonchello?


Yeah, Dump it. Make a completely new setting. Even better, make a completely generic setting. Use everything from everything else! A dash of Realms gods...a pinch of Greyhawk's geography, a smattering of Planescape's cosmology...a litle bit of this, a little bit of that, and bada bing, bada boom, you got yourselves-a one hell-a of a setting!

 

[Quasqueton]

This attitude that Greyhawk is either just lip service or not supported by WotC as the default D&D world just blows me over. How can anyone possibly have this opinion? Really, it just boggles my mind.

ALL the proper names in the core rulebooks and splat books (and many other "world-generic" books) are from WoG. All the "named" spells of the PHB are named after WoG wizards. All the gods in the PHB are WoG gods. Much of the flavor text refers to WoG. Many of the splat book prestige classes are from WoG (Knight Protectors of the Great Kingdom, etc.). The flavor text in the splat books refers to WoG.

How in the world can this not be considered "support" for WoG?

One of the best things WotC has done for WoG with bringing it back as the default setting for D&D is that they haven't gone into extreme detail with it like they have always done with Forgotten Realms. I do not want the Kingdom of Furyondy detailed down to every village and road. I want to make WoG my own campaign setting, using the feel given in the core books. Every detail given in an official product restricts my wiggle room in the campaign world.

I feel very strongly that the current style of vague and broad references to WoG in the core books is perfect for any DM and players who want to use it as their campaign setting. Any more detail would cramp a DM's style and tie down too many strings that a DM could otherwise use for building the world and plots to his own liking.

WotC's use of WoG as the default setting, supported in an vague manner, is perfect for the game and any WoG campaign. To play a campaign in WoG, all you need is the three core books (and a map).

Quasqueton

 

[Ravellion]

There have to be some deities in the PHB. Never haveing played Greyhawk before, I kinda like them. Although from what I've heard, Greyhwak has, like Toril, an insane amount of Gods if you use the complete setting. If the number of gods exceeds 20, the pantheon ceases to be useful to me. The only reason why the FR has so many deities is because there is one for every nitpicky little thing and domain combination, so players can minmax their clerics properly IMNSHO, and I wouldn't want that to be the defealt assumption. Kalamar too, has too many gods IMO, whjich is the only reason why I am not running it now.

Hmmm... Sorry for the hijack but... how many gods does Scarred Lands have?

Rav

 

[Orryn Emrys]

I used to run strictly Greyhawk campaigns, back in the days of 1st Edition, and I did have one major GH campaign in the early 90s... but since then, I haven't even touched it. I always liked the setting... very generic, easily customized without tromping all over the existing material. And the modules were good. Nowadays, however, I prefer to use homebrew material... so regardless of my respect for the setting, it's "default" status for 3E actually has extraordinarily little impact on my campaign... except on those occasions when I have to explain to a new player that those deities listed in the PHB are not viable options in my game.

Not a problem, of course.

I voted neutrally.

 

[WizarDru]

Re: Re: Re: Greyhawk being dumped as the core setting in 3.5

Actually, it's "voila". The viola is an instrument in the string family pitched below a violin and above a violincello.

Indeed it is! Isn't that what he was talking about?

[shuffles out the side door.]

 

[Celebrim]

The main reason I dislike Greyhawk: St. Cuthbert. I mean, come on. What kind of deity, especially a supposedly badass god of retribution, is called Cuthbert?

As stolen from the Catholic encyclopedia....

St. Cuthbert

Bishop of Lindisfarne, patron of Durham, born about 635; died 20 March, 687. His emblem is the head of St. Oswald, king and martyr, which he is represented as bearing in his hands. His feast is kept in Great Britain and Ireland on the 20th of March, and he is patron of the Diocese of Hexham and Newcastle, where his commemoration is inserted among the Suffrages of the Saints. His early biographers give no particulars of his birth, and the accounts in the "Libellus de ortu", which represent him as the son of an Irish king named Muriahdach, though recently supported by Cardinal Moran and Archbishop Healy, are rejected by later English writers as legendary. Moreover, St. Bede's phrase, Brittania . . . genuit (Vita Metricia, c. i), points to his English birth. He was probably born in the neighbourhood of Mailros (Melrose) of lowly parentage, for as a boy he used to tend sheep on the mountain-sides near that monastery. While still a child living with his foster-mother Kenswith his future lot as bishop had been foretold by a little play-fellow, whose prophecy had a lasting effect on his character. He was influenced, too, by the holiness of the community of Mailros, where St. Eata was abbot and St. Basil prior. In the year 651, while watching his sheep, he saw in a vision the soul of St. Aidan carried to heaven by angels, and inspired by this became a monk at Mailros. Yet it would seem that the troubled state of the country hindered him from carrying out his resolution at once. Certain it is that at one part of his life he was a soldier, and the years which succeed the death of St. Aidan and Oswin of Deira seem to have been such as would call for the military service of most of the able-bodied men of Northumbria, which was constantly threatened at this time by the ambition of its southern neighbor, King Penda of Mercia. Peace was not restored to the land until some four years later, as the consequence of a great battle which was fought between the Northumbrians and the Mercians at Winwidfield. It was probably after this battle that Cuthbert found himself free once more to turn to the life he desired. He arrived at Mailros on horseback and armed with a spear. Here he soon became eminent for holiness and learning, while from the first his life was distinguished by supernatural occurrences and miracles. When the monastery at Ripon was founded he went there as guest-master, but in 661 he, with other monks who adhered to the customs of Celtic Christianity, returned to Mailros owing to the adoption at Ripon of the Roman Usage in celebrating Easter and other matters. Shortly after his return he was struck by a pestilence which then attacked the community, but he recovered, and became prior in place of St. Boisil, who died of the disease in 664. In this year the Synod of Whitby decided in favour of the Roman Usage, and St. Cuthbert, who accepted the decision, was sent by St. Eata to be prior at Lindisfarne, in order that he might introduce the Roman customs into that house. This was a difficult matter which needed all his gentle tact and patience to carry out successfully, but the fact that one so renowned for sanctity, who had himself been brought up in the Celtic tradition, was loyally conforming to the Roman use, did much to support the cause of St. Wilfrid. In this matter St. Cuthbert's influence on his time was very marked. At Lindisfarne he spent much time in evangelizing the people. He was noted for his devotion to the Mass, which he could not celebrate without tears, and for the success with which his zealous charity drew sinners to God.

At length, in 676, moved by a desire to attain greater perfection by means of the contemplative life, he retired, with the abbot's leave, to a spot which Archbishop Eyre identifies with St. Cuthbert's Island near Lindisfarne, but which Raine thinks was near Howburn, where "St. Cuthbert's Cave" is still shown. Shortly afterwards he removed to Farne Island, opposite Bamborough in Northumberland, where he gave himself up to a life of great austerity. After some years he was called from this retirement by a synod of bishops held at Twyford in Northumberland, under St. Theodore, Archbishop of Canterbury. At this meeting he was elected Bishop of Lindisfarne, as St. Eata was now translated to Hexham. For a long time he withstood all pressure and only yielded after a long struggle. He was consecrated at York by St. Theodore in the presence of six bishops, at Easter, 685. For two years he acted as bishop, preaching and labouring without intermission, with wonderful results. At Christmas, 686, foreseeing the near approach of death, he resigned his see and returned to his cell on Farne Island, where two months later he was seized with a fatal illness. In his last days, in March, 687, he was tended by monks of Lindisfarne, and received the last sacraments from Abbot Herefrid, to whom he spoke his farewell words, exhorting the monks to be faithful to Catholic unity and the traditions of the Fathers. He died shortly after midnight, and at exactly the same hour that night his friend St. Herbert, the hermit, also died, as St. Cuthbert had predicted.

That sounds like a pretty kick butt PC/NPC to me. I would not be surprised if GG picked up the name consciously or unconsciously, and while I personally don't favor using historical names for invented deities, I think if you are going to that he made a pretty good choice flavorwise.

 

[Barcode]

Don't really care. I do either "high concept" worlds or homebrew (which tends to be high concept as well). The only one out there now that has really caught my eye is Scarred Lands. But I think that a more generic fantasy world is better for the example world in the core books. Greyhawk is fine for that, or Toril, or even Kalamar for that matter.

OR, what's the poop on the new setting search? Could they actually be setting up to use excerpts from one of the final three "bibles" in the core books?

 

[Majin Cthulhu]

Hmmm... Sorry for the hijack but... how many gods does Scarred Lands have?

Rav

Scarred lands has 9 gods( well 8 and 1 turn coat titan), each matching an alignment. Then there are 10 demigods, each ruling over some unusualy aspect of life (shadows, dreams, spiders). There are of course the titans ( parents of the gods ala greek mythology) but they aren't really worshipped by anything other than monsters and certain druids and are mostly dead or imprisoned now anyhow.