Greyhawk being dumped as the core setting in 3.5

[Enceladus]

NOTE: I can't recall this being discussed in depth here but I know I've participated in various discussions on this matter around various forums so I might be mixing my messageboards (haha); if so, just ignore this and move right along, that's a nice EN Worlder...

Speaking of ignoring. I like this forum becuase there is an ignore this user option. One which I plan on using in the very very near future.

 

[DDK]

Although from what I've heard, Greyhwak has, like Toril, an insane amount of Gods if you use the complete setting. If the number of gods exceeds 20, the pantheon ceases to be useful to me. The only reason why the FR has so many deities is because there is one for every nitpicky little thing and domain combination, so players can minmax their clerics properly IMNSHO, and I wouldn't want that to be the defealt assumption. Kalamar too, has too many gods IMO, whjich is the only reason why I am not running it now.

Well, I don't know about the current set of FR Gods but the gods of GH have always been racially based. The only reason there is any intermingling of pantheons is that the races themselves are so integrated after thousands of years of migration and war. Even then, there are pockets where only Flan gods are worshipped, or only Suel or only Oeridian gods are worshipped.

There are actually four distinct pantheons in the World of Greyhawk, five if you include the ones whose origins are unknown (like St. Cuthbert and Mayaheine, among others).

The Bakluni pantheon (Istus, Geshtai, Al'akbar, Azor'alq, etc.), the Suel pantheon (Syrul, Pyremius, Wee Jas, etc.), the Oeridian pantheon (Heironeous, Hextor, Pholtus, etc.) and the Flan pantheon (Erythnul, Nerull, Allitur, etc.). Then, of course, there are the demi-human gods such as Clangeddin who were stolen and incorporated into the FR pantheon...

 

[johnsemlak]

I didn't vote on the poll because I didn't see an option I like.

WoG is my favorite setting. I'd like to see it supported properly. It doesn't matter to me whether it's the 3e default setting or not, I'd be happy with it being taken over by a third party.

 

[Quinn]

For starters, I don't understand the need for a default setting. The adventure path series was strictly generic. Names such as Mordenkainen, Iuz, and St. Cuthbert are used with very little rhyme or reason. There's a lot of story behind these characters and gods but it's not used at all. The PrC's in the splatbooks were supposedly based off of organizations in Greyhawk, yet very little background was given on them. This is not a setting...it's fluff acting as a bookend for the crunchy bits. Nothing has happened in Greyhawk for years, and suspect nothing will happen in the future for it either.

 

[Hejdun]

I think they should just switch over to FR as the main setting. It's already basically there except for some small sections in the various books.

I think that WotC could do a much better job supporting FR as the main setting than it did with Greyhawk.

 

[Henry]

Far from minding, I'd actually like Greyhawk to be stripped from the core books as it would be one step further to a final death of the setting and thus a relinquishment of it to the fans and to those who would like to create material for the setting, ala Dark Sun/Dragonlance/Planescape.

My question is, how does one assume that the setting would be licensed out for use even if elements of it ceased being used in 3E? What stops it from being licensed out now, that would stop this should the setting cease being used? Nothing stops existing fans now from unofficial use, and there will very likely never be another "official" publication about Greyhawk for some time to come, other than the Grehawk journal material in Dragon Magazine. I dare say that nothing really stops licensing right now, should a company or individual display a sincere enough commitment of money and resources to WotC to want it to happen.

 

[DDK]

Re: Re: Greyhawk being dumped as the core setting in 3.5

My question is, how does one assume that the setting would be licensed out for use even if elements of it ceased being used in 3E?

Ah, well, you see... it's a very convoluted affair that I've argued ad nauseum elsewhere with GH nutters, from Dragonsfoot, to Greytalk, to Pied Piper Publishing's boards and even a few others, much more obscure.

Ok... where to start... umm... first off, IIRC, Anthony Valterra stated unequivocally that there was no specific GH product being created or conceivably will be created, ever by WotC.

However... nobody is ALLOWED to create anything for the setting aside from Kenzer who have some funky, weirdbutt licensing dealio that allows them to reference OD&D and 2nd ed. stuff which seems to include some Greyhawkania. Also, the Living Greyhawk setting has their modules and Erik Mona/Gary Holian do the Living Greyhawk Journal in Polyhedron.

But that's it, aside from that, WotC has knocked back offers for licensing deals, or so I've been told by the Greytalk crowd. I know of one licensing deal which is currently under negotiation (if the person who's stated he's doing it is to be believed) but it doesn't look promising.

What stops it from being licensed out now, that would stop this should the setting cease being used?

It is commonly believed within the Greyhawk fan community (as much as anything can be commonly believed in such a splintered group) that if WotC were to drop GH as the default setting, that it would no longer have any real reason to hold onto the licensing of it and therefore GH fans would be free to write for the setting professionally.

Nothing stops existing fans now from unofficial use, and there will very likely never be another "official" publication about Greyhawk for some time to come, other than the Grehawk journal material in Dragon Magazine.

Well, thereupon you hit on the crux of the dilemma. Whilst, in general, Greyhawk fans seem to want WotC to unleash their claws from the setting (after all, they disposed of Dark Sun, Planescape, Spelljammer, Dragonlance, etc.), and at the same time don't want to see it become as detailed as FR, there are still many fans who CRAVE some sort of new GH product.

The LGG was nice, but it was mostly a rehash and amalgamation of other, older sources. What little leeway the writers had was further quashed by Roger Moore (the editor), or so I've been told, so that there is basically little new material at all.

In other words, the last thing to be produced, as I understand it, was Roger Moore's 'The Adventure Begins', back in '98. Almost universally, this product is derided, even by the most open-minded and accepting of GH fans. So although it counts, it doesn't really count, if you know what I mean.

I dare say that nothing really stops licensing right now, should a company or individual display a sincere enough commitment of money and resources to WotC to want it to happen.

Well, like I said, WotC doesn't seem to want to license it out to anyone OR, the price is so high that no-one can afford it.

I've heard rumours that Green Ronin put in a bid (I have absolutely NO idea if that is true or not) but balked at the cost (rumoured to be $20k) and, as I said, I know of one other deal that is apparently in negotiations now, but since I've just been banned from the Greytalk chatroom... heh, you'll have to find out any more than that yerself

NOTE: I'd just like to say that all the above is basically just rumour and heresay. Keep that in mind when discussing this elsewhere or in any attempt to criticize what I've said. I'm only repeating what I know based on idle chatter in chatrooms and messageboards.

 

[Bihor]

I don't care if they keep it or not.
The only thing we got in the core books from GH is some names. No map, no NPC no PrC.
So the new players only know that it is GH is because it si writen somewhere in the core rulebook.
They should have suport it more in the core books.

 

[Agamon]

Keep Greyhawk in 3.5, wait to get rid of it until 4E. 3.5 is about fixing things up, not needless removal of things that don't need changing.

Even though I broke into D&D a score of years ago with GH, have played it on and off throughout the years, and play in Living Greyhawk right now, I think it's a sacred cow that can put out to pasture next edition.

 

[KDLadage]

I voted to get rid of it.

No because I dislike it, but because D&D should be without a default for a background. Give Greyhawk a series of books much like FRCS...