D&D General Greyhawk, Eberron, and Genre in Campaign Settings

payn

I don't believe in the no-win scenario
What is really interesting is how D&D sprung many settings. Folks felt that certain genres were best represented by entire worlds made under a certain lens, as opposed to adding them to Greyhawk for example. Where as in Paizo's Golarion they took a myriad of genres (steampunk, gothic Victorian, western, French revolution, sword and sorcery, etc...) and put them in one setting.

Folks have often claimed to dislike the "kitchen sink" setting becasue there is a cognitive dissonance with an advanced civilization being in one corner and a quite primitive one in the other. I have often wondered if the precedent for such thinking began with D&D and its setting for every genre publishing. If you think about it, Earth is a pretty diverse place so its not like kitchen sink is an artificial construct. A chicken and egg question of campaign settings in the D&D space?
 

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tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Slightly off topic here, but has anyone used Eberron to run a noir-style game?

My Eberron experience have been flamboyantly pulpy with over-competent characters succeeding against all odds, which is as opposite to noir as I can conceive. Whereas Blade Runner can be seen as a (neo) noir film, my games were closer to The Fifth Element.
I Think so. My Eberron games tend to lean pretty freaking dark without sliding into villainy that goes a step too far. Players need to pick some larger power's "side" and peg it's goals/benefit as generally good on the spectrum without sliding off into outright monstrous levels of villainy themselves because there is no clear good good/bad guys to aim at. In a way it's a matter of players balancing three axes☆ of self interest against remaining acceptable to the world & the interests of a larger power they have aligned themselves with. IME that gets difficult with 5e because one of those three fell victim to being "oPtIoNaL"& many players wind up just repeatedly jumping ship to the next power they encounter without ever being considered trustable or getting to look into the murk of grey.

Dread Metrol is a great adventure that puts it in the spotlight... Getting their hands on the hunger cure was quite possibly the most "ummm... What do we want to do with this" moment I've seen a group squirm over

☆google tells me that is the plural of axis buuuut..... 🤷‍♂️
 

Mercurius

Legend
Brian Attebery described genres, particularly fantasy, as "fuzzy sets" - not defined as much by a boundary as to what is or is not within the genre, but by relationship to a center point, which may be represented by a kind of "ur-text" (or set of core texts; e.g. LotR for epic fantasy, Conan for S&S).

D&D is tricky, because it is almost its own family of genres. We could say that the ur-text is early D&D as a whole, both OD&D, Basic, and 1E -- how D&D was originally played and envisioned. But it has expanded quite a bit beyond that, and includes a variety of secondary and related fuzzy sets. And really, every player has their own ur-text, whether a particular edition or campaign setting.

In truth, I see this as the underlying purpose and even beauty of campaign settings, that I think is implicit in their creation and use: each one creates its own sub-genre, its own fuzzy set. But I also find that this sometimes clashes with what we could call "canonical purism," that is, adherence to whatever the latest version of canon is. This tension pops up in different ways - perhaps the insistence by some that a particular setting must include (or exclude) certain elements of canon. Or the old classic "I want to play X," player says; DM replies, "Sorry, they don't exist in this world." "But they're in the rules!" Etc.

I think the idea of D&D as a toolbox is useful here, which implies that you don't have to use all the tools (I mean, you can't possibly include everything, except in potentia), and perhaps more importantly, you can use the tools as you want to. Screwdrivers are made to screw (heh), but you can also use them to pry open paint cans or scratch an itch. If you're designing a campaign world, as the DM, you may consider which races to include, whether they fit your core themes and vibe, and have to make choices: Do I exclude this race, or do I alter it to fit the vibe I'm going for? In considering player preferences, you then consider choices and compromises. For instance, if dragonborn don't fit the vibe you're going for but one of your players loves them, you then have to decide how to serve two masters. Maybe dragonborn don't exist in your world, but except as a random mutation or as the result of magic, or maybe the PC was transported from another world and is a unique specimen. And so forth.

In the larger picture, we can imagine a set of super-imposed, nested fuzzy sets, interacting with each other. You have "fantasy" and then you have "the D&D toolbox," and then you might have a specific campaign world, and then you have your version of it (or a homebrew), for which you might create an actual ur-text: a campaign document that describes the center around which everything relates.

Meaning, the toolbox and fuzzy set allow individual DMs--as campaign world creators--to envision their own "ur-text," and how different elements of the toolbox fit in, whether they fit at all, or how they can be made to fit.
 

Mercurius

Legend
What is really interesting is how D&D sprung many settings. Folks felt that certain genres were best represented by entire worlds made under a certain lens, as opposed to adding them to Greyhawk for example. Where as in Paizo's Golarion they took a myriad of genres (steampunk, gothic Victorian, western, French revolution, sword and sorcery, etc...) and put them in one setting.

Folks have often claimed to dislike the "kitchen sink" setting becasue there is a cognitive dissonance with an advanced civilization being in one corner and a quite primitive one in the other. I have often wondered if the precedent for such thinking began with D&D and its setting for every genre publishing. If you think about it, Earth is a pretty diverse place so its not like kitchen sink is an artificial construct. A chicken and egg question of campaign settings in the D&D space?
Yet that is exactly how the world has always been and still is. Technology is not evenly distributed and societies vary widely in terms of access and usage, whether we're talking now or a thousand years ago.

Similarly, when the agricultural revolution occurred, it didn't happen everywhere. It happened in pockets, at different times. Hunter-gatherers continued to exist, and still do today (to a small degree). Even with modern nations, you have parts that are more "advanced" and parts that are more "primitive."

(not saying you share that cognitive dissonance!)
 

Nobleshield

Villager
Hope this doesn't count as thread necromancy but when Eberron came out "pulp" basically meant Indiana Jones and "noir" meant like black and white detective movie type stuff, think Maltese Falcon.

Those were the two main things that I recall being used to pitch the setting; either murder mystery stuff in a city or something (murder on the lightning rail?) or exploring old ruins at the behest of someone to get artifacts.
 

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