D&D 5E Greyhawk: Why We Need Mo' Oerth by 2024

[EzekielRaiden]

Dragonborn = Barrier Peaks Lizardoids?

Dude, that’s awesome! And it gives Dragonborn a distinct and very Greyhawk flavor

Yep! Perhaps the ones at Barrier Peaks were awoken from cryostasis incorrectly, so their minds were scrambled. Or perhaps the Barrier Peaks vessel was run by a group antagonistic to them, so the ones on board were mindless test subjects rather than proper, functioning people.

Meeting a "proper" lizardoid if you were only acquainted with the Barrier Peaks ones would likely be a truly surreal experience.

 

[Maxperson]

Meeting a "proper" lizardoid if you were only acquainted with the Barrier Peaks ones would likely be a truly surreal experience.

Or a truly Saurial experience, depending on the type of lizardoid.

 

[vecna00]

You know what I would kinda like to see? Way back in Dragon #277, there was an article called "Greyhawk 2000: Post-Industrial Dungeons & Dragons." Completely re-imagine the setting from the ground and make it modern.

I'm positive that almost every fan would hate it, but I think it'd be fun.

View attachment 249549

I loved that article!

 

[Demetrios1453]

Huh, I forgot that Iuz was Tasha's kid. I wonder how that will be handled in modern lore, which has a less villainous take on her? (If Ghosts of Saltmarsh is still canon, we know Iuz still exists...)

They've never glossed over her "cavorting with demons" past (heck, the special edition cover of TCoE has her and Grazz't together on it), even as recently as Witchlight. I doubt Iuz's parentage will be changed.

 

[Demetrios1453]

I know relatively little about grey hawk but though I like it a lot.

How much of a stretch would it be for there to be a small nation of abyssal tieflings in the lands of Iuz?

Wasn’t he a cambion? Or partially so?

I don’t think u have to be uptight with grey hawk to keep the flavor alive

People with fiendish ancestry/bloodlines canonically exist in the Lands of Iuz and the Great Kingdom and its sucessor states. As I said earlier on the thread, even the most hardened grognard will admit this. They just refuse to say they are "tieflings", since the term post-dates Gygax's time building the setting.

 

[JEB]

They've never glossed over her "cavorting with demons" past (heck, the special edition cover of TCoE has her and Grazz't together on it), even as recently as Witchlight. I doubt Iuz's parentage will be changed.

Sure, but Tasha apparently also helped Iuz with a lot of his conquests in classic canon, so I'm curious how and if their relationship will be different in the new canon. Suppose they could just recontextualize.

 

[squibbles]

[...] I thought it would be helpful to explain, in detail, why I think that (1) it is imperative that WoTC publish Greyhawk as a campaign setting on or before the 50th Anniversary of D&D [...]

I don't think you made a very good case that it is "imperative" for WotC to publish Greyhawk. (haters gon' hate, internet pedants gon' go after your word choice)

I understood your main arguments on the point to be the following:

1. The importance of Greyhawk in history, for the future, and for 2024.
[...] the close association of Greyhawk with Gygax is important in understanding the history of the game [...]

2. Greyhawk is not the Forgotten Realms.
[...] Greyhawk has mysteries; the lore is often incomplete. What are the fabled dungeons of Castle Greyhawk truly like? What is the real story behind the Rain of Colorless Fire and the Invoked Devastation? What is the past that gave us all those evocative names for artifacts in the 1e DMG? [...]

[...] Greyhawk was born from more of an amalgamation of Swords & Sorcery and vaguely political influences, with countries (and city states) with crazy forms of government in a state of tension. [...]

I basically agree with all of those points but, apart from the first one, I don't see that Greyhawk is the only or even necessarily the best suited setting. Other settings also have mysteries/unexplored teritorry (Nerath... or Strixhaven as @Paul Farquhar not entirely unsarcastically mentioned) and other settings also have a sword and sorcery aesthetic mixed with political allegory (Dark Sun). And, where the first point is concerned, engaging with history is very much a YMMV advantage, though, as you say elsewhere in the thread, it is appropriate for an anniversary publication.

Did I miss something there? I'd be happy enough to see WotC do something with Greyhawk (I love my Sword and Sorcery), but these don't seem like overwhelmingly compelling reasons why they should.

(apologies if the above out of context quotes are misleading, they're meant to be illustrative, not gotchas)

[...] What is the real story behind the Rain of Colorless Fire and the Invoked Devastation? [...]

[...] It's a setting where the "good guys" are losing, where the big bads are winning and consolidating power and where the goal of the power players (for ex. the Circle of Eight) isn't for good to get on top but for a balance. It can definitely be done as different enough to merit it's own supplement! [...]

(emphasis mine)

Whoa...

I don't think I ever noticed this before but... is that a Cold War thing?

Mutually assured destruction between the Baklunish and Suloise empires and then (much later) a period where key intellectuals advocate a balance [of power] between conflicting blocs.

Yikes, maybe Greyhawk would be (uncomfortably) apropos of 2024.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I can't speak for Paul but I'm presuming it was a satirical comment aimed at the fact that Strixhaven has like less than 60 pages of setting description and doesn't even manage to fully describe the school, let alone the rest of the setting.

Certainly a dig at Stryxhaven, but also the point that "has mysterious unexplored areas" is hardly unique to Greyhawk. Even the Forgotten Realms manages to have a completely unexplored continent (Osse)!

And the same goes for the rest of the points in the OP. I don't see anything that is unique to Greyhawk that makes the setting "imperative". "Might be nice for fans of the setting" is all I'm seeing.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

The dragoborns from Greyhawk were created by Bahamut himself, ordinary humanoids chosen to be his champions against Tiamat minions. Haven't you read "Races of Dragons"? I bought it.

Ironically, this may dovetail with what @Urriak Uruk said about the Imperium of Lynn. Bahamut allegedly helped stop demonic incursions and supported the elves and humans who lived in this land. So, given how little is known about western Oerik, and that the bit we do know includes things like Io the Ninefold Dragon as a progenitor, Bahamut as a provider of boons to oppose fiendish invasion, Tiamat meddling with things and being associated with fiends herself (abishai)...you could absolutely make some solid arguments on that front.

Dragonborn could thus be the result of "Dragonborn of Bahamut" (the 3rd edition version) having children that shared their connection to Bahamut's blessings.

 

[Lojaan]

Greyhawk is like the Forgotten Realms but with less lore!

That is an odd sales pitch, my bro.