[Grim Tales] Using GT for sci-fi?

Flynn

First Post
Good Morning, All,

Has anyone considered the possible use of Grim Tales to run a space-based futuristic game, such as something inspired by Traveller or Star Wars? The use of psionics based on Green Ronin's Psychic's Handbook (with proper limitations to reflect the setting desired) could produce a nice sci-fi feel with a system that works well with Grim Tales' more skill-based focus. I imagine that more backgrounds would have to be designed to fit the various roles of the sci-fi genre, but in the long run, using GT for a sci-fi game should probably work just as well as using D20 Modern for a D20 Future game.

What do you think?

Feeling Creative Today,
Flynn
 

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Flynn said:
Good Morning, All,

Has anyone considered the possible use of Grim Tales to run a space-based futuristic game, such as something inspired by Traveller or Star Wars?

Yep. Been working on a self-contained campaign for a while.

But personally-- and maybe it's my own background prejudices showing through-- my observation is that space RPGs are often more about the ship than the crew.

Serenity, Enterprise, Millenium Falcon-- these aren't just ships, they're characters. A space-themed game, for it to really fire on all cylinders, has to solve one major problem: For a good portion of every adventure, all the PCs are stuck on the ship, interacting with other ships. If the characters-- if the players-- can't invest themselves communally in that ship, you have problems.

I just find it interesting.


I imagine that more backgrounds would have to be designed to fit the various roles of the sci-fi genre...

Wanna know my dirty little secret? When I run GT, I don't even use backgrounds. Players get their choice of 6 skills, plus Knowledge, Craft, and Profession.

Yeah, a GT 2.0 would ditch backgrounds entirely.
 

Wulf Ratbane said:
Wanna know my dirty little secret? When I run GT, I don't even use backgrounds. Players get their choice of 6 skills, plus Knowledge, Craft, and Profession.

Yeah, a GT 2.0 would ditch backgrounds entirely.

Hehehe. Thanks for sharing that with me, Wulf. I think I'll add that to my character creation notes for the GT campaign, and drop all the bloody backgrounds I've been trying to build.

With Thanks,
Flynn

BTW, will this self-contained space campaign be a future release for GT? Just checking...
 

I think GT would do fine for Future.

Heck, if you got D20 Future, well, there you go. :) The only real problem with GT is the work involved with stripping out AdC abilities and turning them into talents. The tech and the rest should work fine.

Unfortunately, as Wulf pointed out, the focus of Sci-Fi is usually in the ship, and the d20F ship rules are totally wonk.

The ship rules from StarWars Revised actually do a pretty good job of giving everybody something to "do" with the "character" of the ship ... different things to man, sheilds to repair, etc etc.

I think, honestly, that d20F had the right IDEA, that of making the ship more like a character. But it didn't go far enough. I'd like to see ships constructed a little more like characters, with their own XP and feats and the like. Seems a little hokey, but I think if done well people might like it. Stuff to give the ship some flavor, and enough stations to man to let everybody in the ship do something as they fly about.

--fje
 

HeapThaumaturgist said:
I think, honestly, that d20F had the right IDEA, that of making the ship more like a character. But it didn't go far enough. I'd like to see ships constructed a little more like characters, with their own XP and feats and the like.

My own thinking is that statting out a ship shouldn't be unlike statting out a character, along the same lines as statting out an organization (presented, I think, in OGL Horror). (Have you seen those rules?)

I've made a first pass at assigning "Officers" to a common variety of tasks, with a corresponding "attribute" attached to each. I think it's a good first step.
  • Weapons (STR)
    Attack and damage bonuses.
  • Navigation (DEX)
    Piloting, defense bonuses, movement.
  • Engineering (CON)
    Resisting damage, "healing."
  • Science (INT)
    Sensors, computers, etc.
  • Communications (WIS)
    First contact, sense alien motives, etc.
  • Captain (CHA)
    Intimidate, Diplomacy, etc. and other actions that aren't wholly dependent on your comm officer. This is kind of a weird component in that a ship can have a high 'charisma', or reputation, but this reputation is not wholly divorced from the Captain. ie, The Enterprise under the command of Kirk as opposed to Sulu.
 

Wulf Ratbane said:
My own thinking is that statting out a ship shouldn't be unlike statting out a character, along the same lines as statting out an organization (presented, I think, in OGL Horror). (Have you seen those rules?)

I've made a first pass at assigning "Officers" to a common variety of tasks, with a corresponding "attribute" attached to each. I think it's a good first step.
  • Weapons (STR)
    Attack and damage bonuses.
  • Navigation (DEX)
    Piloting, defense bonuses, movement.
  • Engineering (CON)
    Resisting damage, "healing."
  • Science (INT)
    Sensors, computers, etc.
  • Communications (WIS)
    First contact, sense alien motives, etc.
  • Captain (CHA)
    Intimidate, Diplomacy, etc. and other actions that aren't wholly dependent on your comm officer. This is kind of a weird component in that a ship can have a high 'charisma', or reputation, but this reputation is not wholly divorced from the Captain. ie, The Enterprise under the command of Kirk as opposed to Sulu.

That rocks!

And an automated ship like Andromeda would have default scores that can be improved by having the proper staffing.

I look forward to seeing how you develop this.

I'd love to see how this works out.
 

Flynn said:
The use of psionics based on Green Ronin's Psychic's Handbook (with proper limitations to reflect the setting desired) could produce a nice sci-fi feel with a system that works well with Grim Tales' more skill-based focus.

The really good fit between between GR PsyHB and GT has been mentioned before.
IMO, if you toss the Psychic class and let GT chars take feats and skills as they want, with everything forced into being cross-class, you get a nice restraint on the power level that fits nicely.
 

Wulf Ratbane said:
My own thinking is that statting out a ship shouldn't be unlike statting out a character, along the same lines as statting out an organization (presented, I think, in OGL Horror). (Have you seen those rules?)

I've made a first pass at assigning "Officers" to a common variety of tasks, with a corresponding "attribute" attached to each. I think it's a good first step.
  • Weapons (STR)
    Attack and damage bonuses.
  • Navigation (DEX)
    Piloting, defense bonuses, movement.
  • Engineering (CON)
    Resisting damage, "healing."
  • Science (INT)
    Sensors, computers, etc.
  • Communications (WIS)
    First contact, sense alien motives, etc.
  • Captain (CHA)
    Intimidate, Diplomacy, etc. and other actions that aren't wholly dependent on your comm officer. This is kind of a weird component in that a ship can have a high 'charisma', or reputation, but this reputation is not wholly divorced from the Captain. ie, The Enterprise under the command of Kirk as opposed to Sulu.

Oooo. Might be a really good way to handle ships like Moya and Talyn too.
 


I'm very interested in a starship variant that feels works -- something that "feels" right. I agree with just about everything that's been said here so far.

Sci Fi/Future gaming tends to lock characters into specializations and pigeonholes that are only effective at certain points in the adventure in much more dramatic ways than modern and fantasy games do. A Future game may have a hacker who is pretty much useless unless he's able to do computer things, a starship pilot and starship engineer who are only at their best in starship combat, and scientist types whe are good in their field but useless most of the rest of the time, too.

And all of that is fine in fiction -- we can leave characters alone for a while and no one minds. But in a gaming situation, everyone wants to be engaged all the time, and that creates very future-specific problems. Starships are just one glaring example of this problem -- there are a lot of others, and when you get right down to it, it's a lot of work to create RP situations where every character's skillset, in a varied party, will have an important role to play.

So, as GMs, we are forced to consider some unhappy options. We can try some solutions that are never quite as satisfying as we might like -- either running a very limited campaign, one that is all starships and starship crews, or all military, etc. Or we can try allowing each player to play a couple of different characters. Or we can accept a lot more idle time for each player than they would have in a traditional fantasy RPG.

One of the things that I really like about D20 Future is the way it uses the computer use skill for just about everything technological -- including nearly everything you'd want to do on a ship. That means that every character can have a rank or two in a skill that will allow them to be minimally effective in a starship situation. It takes feats and other skills to do things well, and to do a few of the key positions on the ship, but everyone can try to contribute something.

But will that contribution be satisfying? Who wants to be the sensor officer on the millenium falcon? I want to fire the guns, or pilot the ship -- or as a distant third be the engineer, trying to squeeze a little more out of the engines or patch up the new gaping hole in the side of the ship.

As a side note, another issue I think about a lot is the problem of tech babble. In a sci-fi book or movie or show, the characters come up with solutions to problems that are based on :):):):):):):):) science blather, and it's all great fun. But how do you translate that into game play that isn't just the DM telling the players that they come up with a solution. There needs to be a mechanic in the game that allows players to come up with a technobabble solution, probably based on an appropriate skill check, but the players need to be active in coming up with the plan, and that's hard to set up.

So, I think statting up a starship like a character makes sense, and it can be a useful way to look at the challenge of starships in future gaming, it may not quite be enough to handle the problems of the genre. It's going to require some other techniques that the GM is going to need to manage as he or she writes the adventures and creates the situation. And that's going to end up being more important than anything else. Encounters that are the province of one or two characters need to be quickly resolved. And climactic encounters need to involve everyone's skills somehow, and if that means that they're some sort of boarding party on the starship while the ship is trying escape from imperial space . . . well, then, figure out how the bad bounty hunters got on board.
 

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