Griping about Building

[Tclynch]

Hi all, Well, I made up a 1st level elf ranger. Now I didn't want to use Cha as a dump stat (as we're using the prerolled stat method), so I used CON instead. Yep, I had 6 HPs for my 1st level character and ....well, I'm dead at the end of our first adventure while everyone else is alive and well.
It just ticks me off that the system forces CHA to be a dump stat. I've decided to play the same type character (as, I've really not gotten attached to the 1st) and just say there is a whole tribe of elves who are sickly (low CON).

 

[Wik]

Just a headsup - you might want to change your thread title, before the mods lock this down. Eric's Gramma, and all that jazz.

 

[Tclynch]

Oh, I didnt think B!tc.!.. would be unacceptable. Sorry. I'm still ticked, though..

 

[Wik]

Yeah, it is one of the inherent pitfalls of d20. I'm getting to be more and more of a fan of any setting that has no Charisma score (social interaction either having no related game mechanic, or being regulated by skills).

In our current Eberron game, we have a beguiler with a 7 CON, and at 4th level, he has 9 hit points. It's rather surprising to see minor attacks that barely dent the rest of the party (the next lowest HP total is in the low 20s) nearly kill the beguiler. So, I identify with the low con situation.

That being said, I don't necessarily see a way out of this problem, except through house-ruling (One I like is having Charisma tie into bonus action points, if you use that system).

In my Post-apoc games, Charisma is vital at CharGen, since it determines starting Equipment Points (always useful), Special Items (higher charisma you have, the more stuff you'e been able to negotiate for), and is very useful in bartering/negotiations.

That being said, I don't see it as being too bizarre that a ranger - a woodsy guy that has little contact with strangers - has a low Charisma score. It almost seems like it fits the character. He doesn't have to be aggressive, ugly, or mean. He could just be someone who doesn't speak much. I'm sure there are plenty of quiet elves out there.

 

[Wik]

Oh, I didnt think B!tc.!.. would be unacceptable. Sorry. I'm still ticked, though..

Ha, it may not be, depending on the mod. But I've seen people in the PbP threads get in trouble for "Dammit" or "Hell". As a thread title, you're just asking for trouble. But, it's all water under the bridge at this point, eh?

 

[kenobi65]

I have to say, if making Cha your dump stat is irritating, making Con a dump stat, particularly for a combat-oriented PC, is just asking for it.

 

[FalcWP]

I'd say you've got a couple problems.

1) Charisma as a dump stat. Yeah, it stinks for that to be a dump stat, but it unfortunately is for a lot of folks. There are ways to make it important, such as campaigns that deal more with interaction, but other than that, there are few ways to make it vital. Everything else has a very definite purpose, rules-wise (attacks/damage, AC, saves, hit points, skill points), but Charisma is a flavor thing and a bonus or penalty on a few skill checks that may or may not be used for most characters.

2) Constitution is vital. If charisma is the one stat most folks can afford to dump, constitution is the one that most folks can't dump, ever. If you play a low-con character, you're taking the risk that one or two goods hits will kill you. If you're playing a low-con, lightly armored elf who is going to end up in melee combat, you may as well put some ranks in Craft (Woodworking) and start making your coffin.

If you want to go with the same character concept again, there's a few things to keep in mind. If you really are going with a tribe of sickly elves, they might have developed strategies like this - otherwise, their very existence is baffling, as low hp folks without good tactics are sort of doomed by natural selection.

1) I'm assuming you were doing it already, but you're pretty much locked in to being an archer. Be the best archer you can be. Archer feats, good bow, variety of arrows, the works. TWF ranger isn't going to last long for you - your six hit points are going to drop the first time you face an orc with a battleaxe. If you shoot that orc in the face while he's fifty feet away, this is much less of a problem.

2) As an archer, you're going to be standing back with the wizard of the party. Make friends with that wizard (put that charisma score you didn't dump to work... and threaten him ), and get him to hit you with spells that make you tougher or harder to hit (or both). Anything he can give you is awesome - Protection from Arrows can protect you from enemy archers, Levitate can put you out of a melee person's reach, and Grease can keep melee folks from charging you. In return, he gets a capable (if fragile) bodyguard in case enemies break through the front line and charge you two.

3) If you can't outlast an opponent, have a backup strategy to get away. Be faster than him (you're already faster than folks in plate armor, but the faster the better). Be more mobile (this is not faster. This is being able to go in directions he can't. Up trees, for example. It's cowardly, but if you shoot arrows from the tree at him until he dies or goes away, you still win).

4) Or be smarter - don't shoot the guy who is charging you, shoot the rope that's holding the chandelier above his head. If you're not dumping charisma, you might as well add a bit of swashbuckler flair. Don't play by your opponent's rules - those are all based around the guy with the most armor and the most hit points hitting the other guy until he's dead. You've got a 6 Con and light armor... you're very much the 'other guy' in that scenario.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I feel your pain.

The game punished your choice because it does not give anywhere near equal value to all abilities. When you look closely there is actually very little real choice in stats for any given character build.

This is a very good reason why a player would want many good stats. They must satisfy the minimum requirements before they can place a remaining good stat in an ability they'd find very interesting and unusual.

We can do very little about this unless someone does a thankless & massive amount of work to rebalance the stats. Best just to handle the crooked system and hope 4E does it better...

 

[roguerouge]

You should make Wisdom your dump stat. Some DMs balk on the charms and dominations and illusions, which makes the will save less essential. Your ranks will eventually overcome the skill penalty problem in listen, spot, etc. And it's much more fun to rp than "sickly ranger."

 

[Delta]

It's a game -- there are good choices and bad choices. If you insist on making the bad choices (presumably out of some "deep roleplaying" motivation), you aren't going to be as successful.

I had a fellow player who said that all he cared about was roleplaying, he refused to pay attention to mechanics choices. And hence his character was a fighter focused on unarmed combat, with a whip for backup, because it was stylish.

The player went completely beserk when he couldn't harm a stone golem later in the campaign. Whined up and down, and demanded that the rules were broken and unfair and had to be changed. But all the information was available and well known when he made those choices -- that's how the game plays.