Griping about Building

[Fifth Element]

The game punished your choice because it does not give anywhere near equal value to all abilities. When you look closely there is actually very little real choice in stats for any given character build.

Fortunately there are hundreds of possible character builds...

Of course not all characters receive the same value from all abilities. But if you have a d8 Hit Die and a low Con, you should be staying out of combat as much as possible, back with the wizard as suggested above. You can't expect to make a character who is weak in a specific way and not have that weakness come into play during the game.

 

[billd91]

Hi all, Well, I made up a 1st level elf ranger. Now I didn't want to use Cha as a dump stat (as we're using the prerolled stat method), so I used CON instead. Yep, I had 6 HPs for my 1st level character and ....well, I'm dead at the end of our first adventure while everyone else is alive and well.
It just ticks me off that the system forces CHA to be a dump stat. I've decided to play the same type character (as, I've really not gotten attached to the 1st) and just say there is a whole tribe of elves who are sickly (low CON).

As you can see, there's nobody forcing you to make your lowest stat Charisma. You just pay the price for the choices you make. I'd have considered Strength as the lower stat and gone archer. Or intelligence since the ranger already has a decent number of skill points.

The 3E system does nothing to force Charisma to be the dump stat and, I'd say, does a lot more than any previous edition to give Charisma some teeth and value. Other stats may be more important for some classes (including the ranger), but there's nothing necessarily wrong with making non-maximizing choices unless it's a hard core minimax game.

 

[Li Shenron]

It's not so much Cha the ultimate dump stat as Con is the ultimate non-dumpable stat It takes a very brave player to keep a Con 6 character.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Hi all, Well, I made up a 1st level elf ranger. Now I didn't want to use Cha as a dump stat (as we're using the prerolled stat method), so I used CON instead. Yep, I had 6 HPs for my 1st level character and ....well, I'm dead at the end of our first adventure while everyone else is alive and well.
It just ticks me off that the system forces CHA to be a dump stat. I've decided to play the same type character (as, I've really not gotten attached to the 1st) and just say there is a whole tribe of elves who are sickly (low CON).

If you have a system that encompasses the possibility of both high and LOW scores then SOMETHING is going to get dumped on. It's not a crime for a PC to be good at something, but it's expecting too much for them to even be adequate at EVERYTHING.

And there's no denying that hit points matter for ALL characters but fighter types need as many as they can get unless they're intending to hide behind the wizards and rogues and shoot pointy sticks. If you're going to CHOOSE a dump stat then why in the world, as a proto-meat shield (as I assume most fighter types to be), would you choose to dump hit points? I think Kenobi was right - you were asking for it.

As for balancing stats I say "plbbbbt"! As crude representations of physical and mental abilities stat scores will NEVER EVER have balanced values. You can push game rules all you want but as long as those stats still represent something vaguely approximating the real world then some will ALWAYS be more valuable than others. In fact, I think it is a massive mistake to even TRY to balance stats. You may end up with great rules for the "game" part of RPG, but it will suck for the "role playing" end of it because you've created a system that creates flavorless, unrealistic, cloned characters without even a passing nod to reality. You may as well just hand people a set of mathematically pre-tested characters that EVERYONE will use and never get to change because they're all perfectly balanced. That is, if balance is so important, which I don't believe for a second it is.

People may play D&D "competetively" in tournaments at cons but that is NOT what the game is for and therefore classes, races, stats, etc DO NOT NEED TO BE AND SHOULD NOT be equal. Yes, a certain degree of balance among PC's is good. Nobody wants to play the salmon in a tank full of sharks, but I do not otherwise sacrifice a bit of my fun when some other player happens to have a better character than I.

YMMV

 

[FalcWP]

It takes a very brave player to keep a Con 6 character.

No, you're wrong. It takes a very cowardly player to keep a Con 6 character. Bravery + Con 6 = dead.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I have to say, if making cha your dump stat is irritating, making con a dump stat, particularly for a combat-oriented PC, is just asking for it.

Words of wisdom.

There are 4 other stats beyond the c-stats. It's not that cha always has to be the dump stat. It's that con is almost always a bad choice for a dump stat.

Use strength and go for light weapons or ranged weapons. With the right choices of favoured enemies, you could have a half-decent damage output (I also suggest getting sneak attack and/or energy enhancements).

Use intelligence and specialize a bit in your skill selection.

Use wisdom and spells be damned (get the variant with fighter bonus feats instead). You'll survive the "bad" spot/listen mods (or use a feat to get Alertness), and the bad will mod (or use a feat to get Iron Will)

Heck, use dexterity, stay out of melee, and get Zen Archery.


Charisma is not very useful in combat or when you're out in the wild or in a dungeon (unless you're a paladin or sorcerer or someone else who uses cha to power combat abilities), but as soon as you want to interact with something in any way except hurting it or hiding from it (and the DM doesn't just handwave mental abilities), charisma will be useful. Rangers don't have to be loners all the time.

 

[jgbrowning]

It's that con is almost always a bad choice for a dump stat.

Very true. CON is the only stat that every character feels the benefits or the penalties from. CON is my most important stat after the primary for the class.

joe b.

 

[JDJblatherings]

Hi all, Well, I made up a 1st level elf ranger. Now I didn't want to use Cha as a dump stat (as we're using the prerolled stat method), so I used CON instead. Yep, I had 6 HPs for my 1st level character and ....well, I'm dead at the end of our first adventure while everyone else is alive and well.
It just ticks me off that the system forces CHA to be a dump stat. I've decided to play the same type character (as, I've really not gotten attached to the 1st) and just say there is a whole tribe of elves who are sickly (low CON).

It depends on the campaign really, all hack and slash with no negotitation/diplomacy at all and it isnt worth much.