Grounding Players in a Setting

[JohnSnow]

JohnSnow, do you think the rules of Dungeoncraft and the Basic World Design Steps contradict each other a bit?

I'm particularly eyeing the First Rule of Dungeoncraft and the long list of to make up in the Basic World Design Steps.

Thoughts?

Actually...no. I don't think they contradict. The First Rule of Dungeoncraft is a KISS model. The world design is very sequential.

I want to design an interesting world, so I come up with a hook. That hook has some implications, so I jot those down. Keeping in mind the second rule of Dungeoncraft, I whip up a secret related to why the world is the way it is, and a secret related to the implications. This is about 2 paragraphs.

Then I decide where my players are going to start. I determine something about that location - basic economy, basic political structure. Then I decide whether it's an independent (like Waterdeep, Lankhmar or Greyhawk) or part of a larger nation (like Sharn or Sanctuary). I think about what that nation's government is like, and consider some of its neighboring countries if it's relevant. It's always nice to have at least a name and a basic political structure for some nearby areas.

Since religion's usually important, I come up with some facts about the major religion. If I have clerics, they need someone to worship, so this is important. Myths help lend reality to the setting, so we invent two. Then I think about whether there are any other major religions. A nature sect? A devil-worshipping cult? If my core religion is wide enough, maybe I don't need this.

Now I turn my attention to the homebase. I decide who's in charge, what most of the townspeople do, what kind of goods and services can be bought, and place at least one religious temple. Then I decide if I want to include any fantasy elements, like a centaur serving in the town guard, hippogriff mounted patrols or the like. I come up with a place for PCs to learn about adventures (that's what "The Rumor Mill" is), and come up with some interesting NPCs. The NPCs are probably either connected to the authority, the rumor mill, the shops or the temple. For the hell of it, I throw one clue into town that will lead the PCs to some secret (in other words, an adventure hook).

Then I map the homebase, then throw a map together for the local area that covers the relevant stuff I'll need for my first few adventures. I already know a little something about the nation and the ones next door, so this should be pretty easy. A few more adventure hooks, and it's done.

Except for inventing the stuff, it takes almost as much time to describe the process as it does to do it. The First Rule of Dungeoncraft is to keep your descriptions short and to the point. Don't go hog wild with details. For example:

"The local authority in Blackstone Keep is Baron Richard Strongbow (Human Male fighter 8). He's supported by 10 foresters, and 50 men-at-arms, and the Watch, comprised of 20 men. Baron Strongbow has held his position since his appointment by King William of Clontarf 8 years ago for "services rendered to the crown." With the King's passing last year, his son Phillip is now king.

Secret: Baron Richard is King William's bastard, and older than King Phillip. He was sent to Blackstone, far from the center of the kingdom, so he wouldn't be around to challenge for the succession."

We now know that the local area is a stronghold named Blackstone, who rules it, what his military support is, and something about the kingdom. Another paragraph would tell us what Blackstone is on the border OF.

It's not really that much, it just sounds like it.

 

[LostSoul]

Actually...no. I don't think they contradict. The First Rule of Dungeoncraft is a KISS model. The world design is very sequential.

So you might go down the list, and keeping the first rule in mind, you'd skip over the ones that you don't need to do.

 

[JohnSnow]

Sure, that'd be one way to do it.

Or just answer them as BRIEFLY as possible. I find it hard to conceive of a game where you wouldn't need at least the framework of an answer for most of those things right from the get-go. Not all of the details mind you, but something.

But yes, anything you don't need, you can just skip and go back to when you need to. Create only what you must. Otherwise, world-building gets overwhelming, fast.

Of course, if you ENJOY that sort of thing, that may be different. But then you need to remember that it may need to be adjusted as your setting develops.

Just my two cents.

 

[taliesin15]

Interesting thread. Related to this, I'm considering getting some new players for a region more or less already developed and used in 2 prior low level campaigns. The issue of grounding characters I think is somewhat an issue, and I wanted to share an idea I had on creating PCs, to see what folks think. I thought one thing that might be interesting is to give players a list of possible places and backgrounds depending on race. Simple stuff like
[Humans]
1. Your father was a soldier, but has made a good living brewing ale in the village of Fallowfall.
2. Your family are humble farmers in the hamlet of Pig's Wallow but you have an aunt with an interest in the arcane.
3. You are an orphan raised by the librarian of the Abbey of Lunys.

etc.

The idea is simplicity, and placement. This leaves backgrounds somewhat open for player input, but places characters in more or less set milieu. Thoughts?

 

[Paka]

The idea is simplicity, and placement. This leaves backgrounds somewhat open for player input, but places characters in more or less set milieu. Thoughts?

taliesin15, I'd even take a step back from that and just present the players with an over-arcing dramatic situation and allow them to build character ideas from it.

- The King is dead with no heir.

- You all live on a cosmopolitan block of a tremendous fantasy city at the center of the civilized world where gang warfare between the recently arrived immigrants is rampant.

- You were all the crew on an exploring ship sent by the Queen and now it is burning to cinders on the beach and the jungle is filled with all manner of alien noises.

Allow them to make the blurbs you write and pile more onto the setting through character creation and by the time everyone is done making characters together, you'll have an amazingly fleshed out setting.

Hope that's helpful.

 

[Hussar]

Whoa.

I agree mostly with Rounser. This is why I was limiting myself to the first two or three sessions and NOT using those sessions for exposition.

I would point out that not every campaign has an over arching storyline as well, which is an assumption I think Rounser is making. Age of Worms does. However, in a more episodic style campaign, where each "adventure" is more or less distinct from eachother, then the only thing linking those adventures is the setting. There is also the point that has already been made that AoW is meant to fit into any existing campaign setting, which imposes certain restrictions that don't exist in a home campaign.

In a more free-form campaign, for example, there may be several plots occuring at the same time. There needs to be a context created for those plots in order for the players to care.

Here's an example from my own Scarred Lands Shelzar campaign. Shelzar is an Arabic style city with all the feel that comes from that. One of the ongoing threads I had in the game was that two foreign groups in Shelzar, the Calastians and the Zathiskans were waging a low grade street war with eachother due to the Calastian occupation of Zathisk.

Now, to ground the party into the context, I bring out a few things. They stopped to eat in a Zathiskan restaurant - descibe the food, and the differences in dress and customs - and overhear grumbling about the Calastians. Later, they pass the Calastian embassy and see Zathiskans being publicly flogged for minor crimes. This puts the sympathy of the players in the Zathiskan camp. However, a short time later, while in the market, a Zathiskan sorcerer blows himself up with a wand of fireballs in the middle of the market - killing numerous people and starting a riot that spreads over the city.

Now the players have a context to make decisions from. Do they stay neutral, get involved? What? But, if I simply say, "Calastians and Zathiskans hate eachother." it isn't going to have much impact.

 

[seskis281]

I find this thread very helpful and interesting as I am starting a brand new group in my brand new setting this weekend. So far I have shown one of the players where to access my world material, but I said "of course you don't need to read it all... just glance through the history."

I like the idea of short primers to be given - I think I will do that, keeping the info to a page for easy reading. I will also ask after character creation if the ones who's characters would indicate more knowledge about the world would like a copy of the history to scan through quickly. My hope is that as the group encounters characters and events they'll become curious, first in the local and region around them then later in larger parts of the world -- as I introduce rumors of myriad possible adventuring destinations I'll allow them to decide where they go and what parts they want to explore.

John

 

[Hussar]

IMNSHO, I think it is a mistake that many DM's make, to front end load information for the players. I know that I am guilty of this. And I've seen other DM's do it too.

It's something to remember that the campaign will last for a while. You don't have to get it all right now. Hopefully the players have a year or so to absorb things. Dish it out in bite sized chunks fairly frequently rather than a big plateful right off the bat.

I've come to the opinion that character background is what you do for the first four or five levels. After that, the campaign really starts. Start off the PC's as more or less blank slates and then let them fill in more of their background as they wish. If something in the game speaks to them and they ask if they can change their background to reflect that, allow it. In my above example, if one of the PC's decides that his character has family ties to one or the other group after learning about this, go for it.

Too many times, character backgrounds are either created entirely open with almost no ties (I'm particularly guilty of this) or incredibly detailed to the point where if you act upon that background as a DM, you wind up forcing the game to revolve around one PC. Instead, allow an open ended background but make it clear that adding to that background is fine.

 

[LostSoul]

In a more free-form campaign, for example, there may be several plots occuring at the same time. There needs to be a context created for those plots in order for the players to care.

I think it's true that you need some context for things to get interesting, but it doesn't necessarily follow that any context will create interest from the players. While your example is cool, and I'd be interested in that, some people might just pass it by.

Context is vital to interest, but what context? How do you develop context that will excite the players?

I think that if you talk to the players, and say, "Okay, that episode's done. What do you want your characters to do? What do you want to do?" and build the context out of their answers, you'll have an idea for the context of the next episode for your campaign.

I think I'm using "context" to mean the setting, what characters do in that setting, and what the players want, too.

Anyway, that's pretty basic... not sure how I would refine it.

 

[Arrgh! Mark!]

This may sound strange, but the first time I really got my players to care about and interact with the setting was in a Wheel of Time game.

Apart from me and one other guy, no-one had experience with the books. One fellow really wants to play the Algai'd'Siswai and so I say fair enough.

I just ran the introduction adventure out of the book. Players really got interested when they almost got splattered by some trollocs.

They start to say "This isn't a normal world. What's going on where a first level party comes across these beasties?"

From that point onwards they tended to be rather wary of anything that they hadn't come across.

This simple factor made the first adventure more interesting than what it would seem. I also left the adventure at a cliffhanger (They enter the ways and padan fain gets away) which interested them even more.

Even now I get people clamoring to play that game again (Finished at 10th level.)

First part is key. I wouldn't suggest giving players 10 pages of text - introduce the important world parts in the game, don't just tell people about them. Much more real that way.