GSL news.

[pawsplay]

They made the system, they copyrighted it and they licensed it out.

They copyrighted the text. You can't copyright a system.

 

[FalconGK81]

On a side note, I just read through this whole thread, and the tone of it changes dramatically somewhere in the middle to 3/4 of the way through, but I don't see any quotes or any reason for it. It goes from "Lets all be happy" to "GSL is gonna kill OGL, z0mg!!!". Were there posts deleted out of this thread, or is there another thread running that is cross contaminating this one, or what? I guess I'm just wondering how the mood shifted so dramatically. Did I miss something?

 

[med stud]

They copyrighted the text. You can't copyright a system.

OK I guess I have a moral POV on this anyway; if you can't copyright a system, it sounds very strange to me. WotC spends lots of money and time developing a system, and then anyone of the street can reword it and start selling it? It sounds weird. I don't doubt what you say though, I know next to nothing about US juridics.

 

[med stud]

On a side note, I just read through this whole thread, and the tone of it changes dramatically somewhere in the middle to 3/4 of the way through, but I don't see any quotes or any reason for it. It goes from "Lets all be happy" to "GSL is gonna kill OGL, z0mg!!!". Were there posts deleted out of this thread, or is there another thread running that is cross contaminating this one, or what? I guess I'm just wondering how the mood shifted so dramatically. Did I miss something?

Positive opionions tend not to create controversy, so after a few pages most of what is going on is stuff that do create controversy. I think it applies to almost every thread I have read on just about any internet message board. Human psychology at it's most typical

 

[Cadfan]

I don't know. How many of you are aware of antitrust legislation?

Statements like this put your credibility on this subject in great jeopardy.

OK I guess I have a moral POV on this anyway; if you can't copyright a system, it sounds very strange to me. WotC spends lots of money and time developing a system, and then anyone of the street can reword it and start selling it? It sounds weird. I don't doubt what you say though, I know next to nothing about US juridics.

You can't copyright a process, and in theory, a game is a process. That being said, a game has a lot in common with a computer program, and copyright has special rules that mean you can (sort of) copyright a computer program. This is due to extensive litigation that worked out the vagueness of how to apply old copyright principles from the 1700s to the modern era of information technology. This litigation and resulting update has not occurred for games, and probably never will, because the status quo lets business move along and there isn't enough at stake to make serious IP litigation worthwhile for anyone in the business.

As long as no one kicks over the apple cart, everything will move along just fine.

 

[Orcus]

Here's something: how restrictive is the "one or the other" clause? I'm specifically thinking of Paizo. They're planning to work with Necro on 4E, but keep publishing their own 3E stuff. However, their main business is actually being a storefront for games and gaming accessories including their own. If they stick with 3E, will they be able to sell Necro's 4E stuff in their online store, or vice versa: if they move to 4E will they have to discontinue selling all the 3E stock they have sitting around...back issues, older books, etc.?

Dont worry. I have been specifically told by Wizards that my arrangement with Paizo is kosher and that I can do 4E and Paizo can do its thing and we are fine.

I strongly disapprove of this measure. I think that some amount of nudging to convert to 4E is probably okay, but not arm-twisting like this. It should be a carrot, not a stick. This "you're with us or you're against us" mentality has a precedent of blowing up in the face of the one making the ultimatum. As a consumer, I take offence at this deliberate hamstringing of companies that are beloved by the community.

For what its worth, I dont like it one bit either. I'm disappointed that they went this way. I am surprised, too.

Clark

 

[Mercule]

I don't know. How many of you are aware of antitrust legislation?

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

WotC may be the big fish, but there are plenty of viable RPG companies out there. I'm not even entirely certain the "RP" is relevant, in this case. There are plenty of viable game companies out there.

 

[pawsplay]

OK I guess I have a moral POV on this anyway; if you can't copyright a system, it sounds very strange to me. WotC spends lots of money and time developing a system, and then anyone of the street can reword it and start selling it? It sounds weird. I don't doubt what you say though, I know next to nothing about US juridics.

It goes back to the concept of "You can't copyright an idea." You can copyright a book, having taken the time to arrange a bunch of words into their final published form and calling it an intellectual work. But you can't sue someone for writing a similar novel, unless you can demonstrate their novel is actually derived from the text of yours. That's what's called a derivative work. I can't make a movie called Space Wars about some schelp named Bo Starkiller fighting the galactic empire with his friends Duchess Florence and Max Lone using his psychic powers with the help of a grizzled old Woodoo Knight, unless I am going to claim I am fairly parodying Star Wars. But I can make Eragon, which uses similar themes, because George Lucas can't claim to own the concept of farmboys destroying tyrannical rulers. Indeed, Star Wars itself owes a lot to Doc Smith's Lensman, Kurosawa's film The Hidden Fortress, and of course Flash Gordon.

So going back to D&D, they can copyright this text:

Strength measures your character’s muscle and physical power. This ability is especially important for fighters, barbarians, paladins, rangers, and monks because it helps them prevail in combat. Strength also limits the amount of equipment your character can carry.


since for all practical purposes, they are the first to put those words together in a final form to express some idea.

Compare to:

Strength represents the character's raw physical power: how much damage he does in HTH Combat; how much he can lift, carry, throw, and so forth.

an equally copyrightable piece of text from Hero System Fifth Edition Revised.

 

[pawsplay]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

But you really don't know, since we haven't conversed at length on the subject. I suspect that the same rules that prevented Microsoft from keeping other companies out of the Windows software game apply to WotC. "Antitrust" is a linguistic quirk of being an American; I am talking about anti-competitive business practices.

 

[The Little Raven]

The only reason WotC doesn't risk being sued/fined into oblivion over this form of IP racketeering is that the gaming market is too small for that to be realistic.

You do realize that accusing a company of a crime of this magnitude is libel when you have no legal evidence of it, right?