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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7379482" data-attributes="member: 6919838">But let me suggest.., **if** as claimed its about immersion and the cleric being involed in scene for guidance and the apparent frustration that causes, how does making the &quot;divinity chouce&quot; influenced by &quot;what guidance it allows&quot; help? It just means the problem occurs in as broad a type of divine influence as the cleric can find divine-wise... which **also** means (as the OP observed) it pushes the players to get that as often as possible.Where one sees it as maybe a case of &quot;it lets me argue it enough that the players get tired of it&quot; there are other cases where it sets up the ongoing &quot;justification tango&quot; for a spell where it is **claimed** it is not a balance issue.Is over and over and over discussions ilmud game to justify &quot;this *is* valud use of my guidance&quot; rrally less frustrating than just having it become commonplace? Seems to me it actually hands **more** game-time to the cantrip for less net benefit... Since its not about the d4... Right? ... So why is that better, less intrusive, less immersion itchy?Or is it the d4 and this will cut back on it?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7379482, member: 6919838"] But let me suggest.., **if** as claimed its about immersion and the cleric being involed in scene for guidance and the apparent frustration that causes, how does making the "divinity chouce" influenced by "what guidance it allows" help? It just means the problem occurs in as broad a type of divine influence as the cleric can find divine-wise... which **also** means (as the OP observed) it pushes the players to get that as often as possible. Where one sees it as maybe a case of "it lets me argue it enough that the players get tired of it" there are other cases where it sets up the ongoing "justification tango" for a spell where it is **claimed** it is not a balance issue. Is over and over and over discussions ilmud game to justify "this *is* valud use of my guidance" rrally less frustrating than just having it become commonplace? Seems to me it actually hands **more** game-time to the cantrip for less net benefit... Since its not about the d4... Right? ... So why is that better, less intrusive, less immersion itchy? Or is it the d4 and this will cut back on it? [/QUOTE]

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