Guidance Cleric cantrip is really dumb

[ArtaSoral]

I'm getting really frustrated with the Cleric cantrip Guidance and I'm wondering what your guys thoughts on it are.

For those who don't know Guidance is a Cleric cantrip with a casting time of one action (concentration 1 minute) that works as follows: You touch one willing creature. Once before the spell ends, the target can roll a d4 and add the number rolled to one ability check of its choice. It can roll the die before or after making the ability check. The spell then ends.

Practically speaking, this means that whenever any member of the party is making any sort of check out of combat the cleric can, and strategically should, cast guidance on them.

The community “solution” seems to be either:

1. the DM should basically force there to be none, or minimal, non-time sensitive checks to force the cleric not to waste his action casting guidance or
2. Up the DC of checks appropriately

My issue though NOT on the technical aspect. The 1d4/ the DC of the check doesn't bother me. My issue is how the cantrips existence affects the immersion/feel of the game. Now, anytime anytime anyone tries to do anything the cleric pipes up saying, “and I cast guidance!" (to make matters worse [although outside the scope of this post] usually someone else will pipe up saying “and I use the help action!”) Already we now have this annoying pocket cleric who is always involved in everything, even situations that should be another character’s time to shine.

But it gets even worse. Often, the party will be in a (out of combat) situation where several different characters will want to use their skills to do something. The thief wants to try to pick the lock on a chest while the ranger sweeps the room for traps and the wizard starts to translate the strange glyphs on the walls. Instead of everyone going about and doing their thing, everyone has to wait for the cleric to come over and give each of them guidance.

And even when it’s not happening all at the same time we have some ridiculous looking situations. The Bard wants to have a conversation with an NPC and try and convince them of something? Hold on, the cleric’s got to be there! Oh, the Fighter is trying to size up different weapons at the shop? Gotta have the priest with ya. Barbarian having a drinking contest? Make sure the clerics on hand; not for the recovery of course, but for the initial drink.

I’ve been told if it bothers me so much I should just ban it from use in those kind of situations, but I really hate taking away player autonomy and contradicting the PHB. Thoughts?
P.S: All this stuff also applies to the help action, although at least there most DM’s I know (and I do this) require an explanation of how they are helping so it at least makes sense; guidance obviously cannot have the same requirement.

 

[DEFCON 1]

What's worse, player autonomy or all the Guidance spells? If you need one or the other, then just choose one or the other.

Or your other option is to actually use role play and inform the cleric that Guidance only works when the deity that the cleric worships actually supports the actions the Cleric is trying to guide. So the deity of a War cleric won't guide a cease-fire negotiation, and a trickery cleric won't guide an Insight check.

 

[5ekyu]

Well, to me its just not a problem.

Clerics can provide guidance... So what? Great for them.

I have baseline standard dc in,my game based on dmg rec for 10-20 plus resources, so i dont "adjust" DC to offset guidance any more than i "adjust" AC in case they use Bless or save DC in case they get... You get the picture?

Honestly, if the cleric were given a class ability which said "blessed boon" which let one character per turn roll 1d4 extra on skill checks... My bet is it would not be lighting up the boards as the game breaking gm angering godzilla of features...

But hey, as a cantrip, its "wrong"?

Characters being able to work together is a good thing imo...

In my games at least.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Just don't make the cleric say that he casts guidance. Unless he's doing something else, just assume that he does unless you or the cleric says otherwise.

You could make it even less obtrusive and subtract 1d4 from the DC.

If time doesn't matter, then quietly assuming that they take their actions sequentially and things take 30 seconds instead of 6 is fine... just make sure that you occasionally point out that they're taking the extra time, so when they get caught out by it (because reinforcements took 30 seconds to arrive, for instance), they can't complain and say "but we did those things at the same time".

Finally, any time that a third party is present, casting spells is probably not ok. While it's true that that specific spell isn't directly harmful, casting a spell is pretty much the same as brandishing a large knife. Even if you're not stabbing someone with it, it's going to make people nervous. Most people won't like the effect that it has on social interactions. Just for general safety's sake, it's a bad idea. You might get a pass if you're obviously using it as a tool... but even then, you don't do that sort of thing in someone else's shop, or home, or ballroom etc. Nobody will accept that you were brandishing a knife in the monarch's chamber in a harmless fashion. etc.

 

[5ekyu]

"I'm getting really frustrated with the Cleric cantrip Guidance and I'm wondering what your guys thoughts on it are."

My thoughts are that ifa d4 to skill checks is "really frustrating" a gm, i pray for them at tiets 2 3 etc.

 

[Dausuul]

I’ve been told if it bothers me so much I should just ban it from use in those kind of situations, but I really hate taking away player autonomy and contradicting the PHB. Thoughts?

I would not want to let myself in for a lot of debate on "is guidance usable in this situation or not?" If I felt it was a problem in a game I was running, I would simply ban the spell altogether.

I avoid complex house rules whenever I can. "Such-and-such is banned" is about the simplest house rule there is. If my players get upset, then we can work together on a solution. Usually, though, I find the players just shrug and take something else, and that's that.

 

[ArtaSoral]

Alright for most of the responses (which don't get me wrong I appreciate the feedback) I'm guessing I either didn't explain myself very well or made it too long so you guys didn't read it (looking at you 5ekyu.) My issue is not the 1d4 or the DC. I have NO issue with the BALANCE of the spell. My issue is purely flavor/description in nature (probably poor wording but original post hopefully explains it a bit better.) As for the limiting the cantrips use suggestions, perhaps my standards are untenable or foolish but as I said in the PS I don't like weakening my PC's in direct contradiction to the PHB.

 

[Dave Goff]

I personally don't like the unlimited cantrip idea, not even for any of the cantrips. I don't really think limiting it to a good yet manageable number is totally reasonable. We generally have house-ruled 8 cantrips/day or 6+spell modifer and that's almost always plenty. Just the thought of it being limited makes the casters want to be more judicious or find more interesting ways of doing things.

Also, I agree with the idea other people would likely notice the verbal adn somatic portions of the spell and not react kindly to it, which not only provides a situational limitation also adds to the role-playing atmosphere.

Without trying to be spammy, I'd like to point to the post I made about
the Guidance cantrip here.

 

[Greg K]

Welcome to D&D divine magic. A couple of suggestions
1. For clerics, treat Guidance as a blessing and only allow to work on an ability check or specific skill /tool proficiency related to the cleric's deity's domain.
2. For Druid's treat it as summoning a Guiding spirit. Limit the benefit to Intelligence (Arcane, History, Nature), and Wisdom (Medicine) checks and the benefit only applying to the Druid. Perhaps, even increase the casting time to a short rest to reflect the Druid needing to enter a trance to summon an ancestral or totem spirit that has to seek out another spirit for insight into the problem. This would reflect how shamans in many cultures enter a meditative ritual trance to contact their spirit guide for insight on knowledge or treating a specific illness and, if the guide does not have an answer, it seeks out other spirits for advice
Actually, for Druids, I have been considering removing guidance from their spell list and making a Guiding Spirit ability at level one and, at level two, giving the druid a turn spirit ability. I just have not worked out how to balance these abilities).

 

[MarkB]

Why would you increase skill check DCs? The whole point of the spell is to give players a higher chance of success at skill checks. If they're passing checks more easily, it's working as intended.

In terms of the spell's logistics, I agree that it can get awkward. Players don't want to be reminded "don't forget your extra 1d4" every time they roll, and the DM doesn't want the narrative broken by someone piping up "and I cast Guidance on him" every time he describes how a character's actions play out. On the other hand, the player with the cantrip doesn't want his ability to assist his companions to go to waste.

If the DM's happy to keep track of it, he could treat it as effectively a passive "aura" effect, letting characters benefit from it automatically if circumstances would allow for it, maybe even switching it from 1d4 to a fixed value of 2 or 3. Or the player could institute a non-verbal reminder, such as holding up a card saying "Guidance +1d4" when he uses the cantrip, or acting out the hand gestures of his deity's blessing, so as not to talk over other players.