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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kithas" data-source="post: 6764865" data-attributes="member: 97587">yeah losing the CD is a big deal I agree. I much prefer tempest myself(half sorc).One small note on Hill Dwarf, I agree it's the best race for clerics, another thing it adds that you didn't mention is the fact that heavy armor doesn't slow you down, meaning you don't need a 13/15 in str.On another note, as much as you push Con(and I completely agree it's super important) I'm curious as to why the tough feat is so low on your list. +2 health per level is equivalent of a +4 in con. Also this let's you have health like someone with a 24 in con since it doesn't interact with the 20 cap. I would say you should cap your Con first but this would definitely be a close second if survivability is your goal. I would definitely rate this above Heavy armor master.In regard to savage attacker; Since clerics only have one attack, and SA only works once per turn this actually works %age wise better than on classes with multiple attacks. It may be a good idea for a war cleric(esp with 2+levels in paladin), or nature if going melee. Savage attacker is generally very underrated imo, it only gives you about a .4-.6 per die higher average damage but it makes you have about a 70% chance to have a good damage roll(above average on each die) and lowers your bad rolls to 20-30%, and truly awful rolls are near impossible with the rerolls. Still not amazing but definitely not the worst choice. War cleric/Paladin with this is actually very very good.In my opinion there is no reason a cleric cannot be a melee tank. They get heavy armor and shields most of the time and your hp can definitely be good enough to hang with fighters and barbarians, vs a barbarian you only have ~40 less health all else equal, ~20 for fighters. So the 2 things that matter to tanking, AC and Health, you are easily on par with. Also things like Spirit Guardians and Thunderwave and excessive healing make you much more valuable as a target, whereas they might just ignore the fighter/barb and go for the squishies. Another note from my observations. I've played a tempest cleric up til level 5(only switched because the dm and I agreed it would be better for the party) and I plan on playing one again now that storm sorc is official. Clerics, tempest and light atleast, can definitely be competent blasters, there aren't many options as far as spells go(multi into sorc does help with this), but you have the big ones, thunderwave, shatter and call lightning. All of these can be cast with higher slots! An 8th level thunderwave maximized is incredibly devastating(64/32 damage to everything in a 15' cube is nuts) It's also worth mentioning that thunderbolt strike doesn't care where the lightning damage came from, your divine strike now knocks people 10' back, your sorc spells now move people etc. For Wrath of the Storm, 2d8 as a reaction(and push 10' after lvl 6) is definitely good enough late into the game, before level 11 (and then only paladins) no one else can use a reaction to hit that hard, and for an easy trigger too. Opp attacks can at most hit for 2d6+5, you hit for 2d8, definitely not a waste. In your CD at level 10 example, thunderwave maxed is a 48/24(6d8s), outdamaging everything on that list.All of that said I still don't see much value in cleric after level 9, Intervention is situational at best, and none of the 17 abilities seem worth it. (Fly is a lvl 3 spell that outclasses mine...)Something else worth mentioning, if you are interested in multiclassing, is the synergy between Thunderbolt Strike and Heart of the Storm(storm cleric lvl 6). Basically this means that every time you cast a spell that does thunder or lighting of lvl1+ you get to add half your sorc level to damage(in aoe around you) and push those damaged by that 10' away from you, no save, no to hit, no questions asked. You also get to choose who you hit, so you can leave your allies out, or you can use it to reposition an ally, shoving him 10' without hurting too badly(3-10 damage) and no opp attacks for him.  I plan on playing a Storm sorc/Temp cleric in an upcoming campaign as a mage/tank and am definitely looking forward to it.Overall I really like your guides and respect your opinions when I see your posts.sorry for massive wall of text <.<</blockquote>

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