mellored
Legend
The original print said that paladins could use smite with "paladin spell slots". It caused some confusion. It was clarified.
D&D 5E (2014) [GUIDE] Playing Dice with the Universe: A Slant Guide to Wild-Magic Sorcerer
- Thread starter Cognomen's Cassowary
- Start date
It isn't pointed out in the guide (or I missed it if it is) but Wild Surges can only happen when you cast Sorcerer spells. This means that multiclassing any other spellcasting class will take away from your chance to trigger a wild surge.
I have a "Wild Mage" in AL that is a Sorc 1 | Wiz 14. I started Sorcerer for the CON save prof and because I wanted to have a wild mage. I took Shield and Magic Missile as my two Sorc spells. My primary casting is from Wizard, obviously, but if I use Shield or MM, it can trigger a surge. I'm very specific about mentioning this to DMs and I keep a "Tides of Chaos" little stand-up sign so I can indicate when I have used that feature, so when I use Shield or MM, the DM knows whether I am rolling to see if a surge happens or to see what surge happens.
Usually, I use Tides of Chaos on my Initiative roll so I can have that table roll immediately in combat, but once I got into higher levels of Wizard, I find that I use Shield less and less. If I get surrounded, I sometimes provoke an OA specifically to try to trigger Shield, but this has been bad for my character's health on more than one occasion! Throwing a Magic Missile in someone's face at point-blank range is more effective, especially since I have so much potential to block attacks with Portent and the Lucky feat. Also, Shield spell
I have a "Wild Mage" in AL that is a Sorc 1 | Wiz 14. I started Sorcerer for the CON save prof and because I wanted to have a wild mage. I took Shield and Magic Missile as my two Sorc spells. My primary casting is from Wizard, obviously, but if I use Shield or MM, it can trigger a surge. I'm very specific about mentioning this to DMs and I keep a "Tides of Chaos" little stand-up sign so I can indicate when I have used that feature, so when I use Shield or MM, the DM knows whether I am rolling to see if a surge happens or to see what surge happens.
Usually, I use Tides of Chaos on my Initiative roll so I can have that table roll immediately in combat, but once I got into higher levels of Wizard, I find that I use Shield less and less. If I get surrounded, I sometimes provoke an OA specifically to try to trigger Shield, but this has been bad for my character's health on more than one occasion! Throwing a Magic Missile in someone's face at point-blank range is more effective, especially since I have so much potential to block attacks with Portent and the Lucky feat. Also, Shield spell
Keith Ammann
Yep, That Guy
Just wanted to jump in and say that even turning into a potted plant isn't irredeemably bad. One of my players, a Wild Magic sorcerer, overextended himself and got attacked by a bunch of will-o'-wisps. He cast a spell, got a Wild Magic Surge, and turned into a potted plant. Well, they're will-o'-wisps. They're not interested in inanimate objects, so they drifted away. It saved his ass.
Ruenruotel
First Post
Wonderful combo !
Sir! Good sir! Hear me out please. Just like you, I am passionate about the Wild Magic Sorcerer subclass, and I find that yur guide is marvelously made. However, I believe there is one thing that deserves correction : your rating on the Ritual Caster feat.
Now, for any other Sorcerer, this feat would be no big deal. But for a Wild Mage.....
By choosing "Sorcerer" in the feat's list of classes to get rituals from, you gain access to two L1 Sorcerer ritual-tagged spells. Good thing that there are exactly two existing L1 Sorcerer ritual-tagged spells : Comprehend Languages & Detect Magic, it makes it easy to choose when gaining the feat. And two other Sorcerer ritual-tagged spells exist : Water Breathing & Water Walk, both L3 spells.
Now here's where it gets INTERESTING : the Wild Magic may activate when you cast a sorcerer spell. But with this feat, you can cast the four spells mentionned above WITHOUT USING A SPELL SLOT, and it STILL can activate a Surge.
See where I'm going ? INFINITE SURGES ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !!!! ! !! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Please consider this positive feedback, good sir, and update your Ritual Caster's rating accordingly.
Good day !
Sir! Good sir! Hear me out please. Just like you, I am passionate about the Wild Magic Sorcerer subclass, and I find that yur guide is marvelously made. However, I believe there is one thing that deserves correction : your rating on the Ritual Caster feat.
Now, for any other Sorcerer, this feat would be no big deal. But for a Wild Mage.....
By choosing "Sorcerer" in the feat's list of classes to get rituals from, you gain access to two L1 Sorcerer ritual-tagged spells. Good thing that there are exactly two existing L1 Sorcerer ritual-tagged spells : Comprehend Languages & Detect Magic, it makes it easy to choose when gaining the feat. And two other Sorcerer ritual-tagged spells exist : Water Breathing & Water Walk, both L3 spells.
Now here's where it gets INTERESTING : the Wild Magic may activate when you cast a sorcerer spell. But with this feat, you can cast the four spells mentionned above WITHOUT USING A SPELL SLOT, and it STILL can activate a Surge.
See where I'm going ? INFINITE SURGES ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !!!! ! !! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Please consider this positive feedback, good sir, and update your Ritual Caster's rating accordingly.
Good day !
Cognomen's Cassowary
First Post
I . . . I say, my man! This is nothing short of genius! I shall update my guide posthaste, but I shall have to invent a new color for this particular feat. Um um um . . . gold plus. No, sounds like a retirement plan. Double gold? Getting closer. Sky gold! As in gold that fell out of the sky and hit you on the head because it was so obvious that you have to take this feat!
FieserMoep
Explorer
As a Wild Magic Sorcerer you are already dependent on the good will of your DM, to 'cheese' more Spells may make your Surges go "poof".
Thus this is not an auto pick.
Thus this is not an auto pick.
Cognomen's Cassowary
First Post
I was speaking facetiously, and I believe that Ruenruotel was as well. The value of unlimited surges outside of combat is dubious, and the Int or Wis requirement of the feat makes it onerous for most sorcerers to obtain anyway.
Ruenruotel
First Post
I can understand that with my gentleman-styled comment, you may have believed I was fooling around, but i was not !
In fact, when I found this out yesterday afternoon, I was super-duper thrilled, because I've been interested in the subclass for years, but I thought that with limited spell slots (especially at low levels), there wouldn't be enough surges for my liking.
Granted, this technique requires 2 "OKs" from your DM :
1. About the optional rules on feats (and, if you wish, about the Variant Human option, if you want to start out with the "a-surge-every-10-minutes")
2. About letting you roll on the Surge table whenever you are able to (every 10 minutes in that case).
But, it's not that hard to find the right DM for these two OK's. In fact, I know two DMs (with whom I play) who absolutely love a chaotic taste in their games, and letting more random funny moments happen is, for them, all the better.
Now let's go through the "out-of-combat-surge" utility : first, no matter what you get on the table, it's fun, so having fun is always useful.
Second, think about it : you have a chance to get effect #50 (get back sorcery points) every 10 minutes for free ! (so if you play smart and already have all your points converted into slots, eyyyy!)
Other effects that can be beneficial in out-of-combat situations :
-Roll on table for next minute (cause you can get the other goodies)
-See invisible (if a sneaky baddy is sneaking on your group, eyyyy!)
-HP regen (if you were scratched before, eyyyy!)
-Third eye (if you're searching for something, which would make sense if the ritual you just casted is Detect Magic, eyyyy!)
-Ninja teleport (if there's a platform up there you can't quite reach, eyyyy!)
-Self-heal (see HP regen)
-Ninja teleports for the next minute (see Ninja teleport)
-Levitate on self (see Ninja teleport)
-Immunity to alcohol intoxication (if you're in a drinking competition, eyyyy!)
-Fire-starter (if you want to intimidate some thuggies, eyyyy!)
-Spell-slot recharge (same as when you get back sorcery points, just less powerful at high levels, but still, eyyyy!)
-Resistance to everything (if you wanna show that you're a tough guy and jump off a cliff or something, eyyyy!)
-Extra action (if you wanna do many many things, eyyyy!)
-Free mirror image (if you're a sneaky baddy, eyyyy!)
-Personal invisibility and inaudibility (see mirror image)
-Free reincarnation (if you're feeling like dying... hahahahaha)
Of course, there's also things that will be detrimental to you, but if you like playing the lottery, the Ritual Caster feat will please you ! (sorry for all the eyyyys, I just find that it sounds cool to write it, hehee)
Edit: I forgot to adress the 13 Int/Wis dip in order to fet the feat. Well, if you intend on being a pure wild mage up to level 20, it's not optimal. However, if you plan on doing a 1-2 levels dip on a wis or int based class (like a diviner wizard 2 for the extra portent luck), then it's good !
In fact, when I found this out yesterday afternoon, I was super-duper thrilled, because I've been interested in the subclass for years, but I thought that with limited spell slots (especially at low levels), there wouldn't be enough surges for my liking.
Granted, this technique requires 2 "OKs" from your DM :
1. About the optional rules on feats (and, if you wish, about the Variant Human option, if you want to start out with the "a-surge-every-10-minutes")
2. About letting you roll on the Surge table whenever you are able to (every 10 minutes in that case).
But, it's not that hard to find the right DM for these two OK's. In fact, I know two DMs (with whom I play) who absolutely love a chaotic taste in their games, and letting more random funny moments happen is, for them, all the better.
Now let's go through the "out-of-combat-surge" utility : first, no matter what you get on the table, it's fun, so having fun is always useful.
Second, think about it : you have a chance to get effect #50 (get back sorcery points) every 10 minutes for free ! (so if you play smart and already have all your points converted into slots, eyyyy!)
Other effects that can be beneficial in out-of-combat situations :
-Roll on table for next minute (cause you can get the other goodies)
-See invisible (if a sneaky baddy is sneaking on your group, eyyyy!)
-HP regen (if you were scratched before, eyyyy!)
-Third eye (if you're searching for something, which would make sense if the ritual you just casted is Detect Magic, eyyyy!)
-Ninja teleport (if there's a platform up there you can't quite reach, eyyyy!)
-Self-heal (see HP regen)
-Ninja teleports for the next minute (see Ninja teleport)
-Levitate on self (see Ninja teleport)
-Immunity to alcohol intoxication (if you're in a drinking competition, eyyyy!)
-Fire-starter (if you want to intimidate some thuggies, eyyyy!)
-Spell-slot recharge (same as when you get back sorcery points, just less powerful at high levels, but still, eyyyy!)
-Resistance to everything (if you wanna show that you're a tough guy and jump off a cliff or something, eyyyy!)
-Extra action (if you wanna do many many things, eyyyy!)
-Free mirror image (if you're a sneaky baddy, eyyyy!)
-Personal invisibility and inaudibility (see mirror image)
-Free reincarnation (if you're feeling like dying... hahahahaha)
Of course, there's also things that will be detrimental to you, but if you like playing the lottery, the Ritual Caster feat will please you ! (sorry for all the eyyyys, I just find that it sounds cool to write it, hehee)
Edit: I forgot to adress the 13 Int/Wis dip in order to fet the feat. Well, if you intend on being a pure wild mage up to level 20, it's not optimal. However, if you plan on doing a 1-2 levels dip on a wis or int based class (like a diviner wizard 2 for the extra portent luck), then it's good !
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mellored
Legend
On average, it would take take about 6 hours of rituals to get all your SP back. (Of course, you can get lucky and get it early, or unlucky and spend much longer).
I suppose if the rest of your party was taking a short rest, you could be rolling on the table. For a 11.5% chance to regain your SP.
Cognomen's Cassowary
First Post
Well, I won't deny that it could be fun, but I think you are overstating the case in a few ways.
1. Each casting only gives you a chance at a surge, unless you have a place to dump tides of chaos. Granted, that can be handled by fire bolting a sparrow every ten minutes, but that's the sort of behavior that brings a person a reputation.
2. Casting a ritual requires your concentration and your action every turn, meaning that your ability to do this in a dungeon or other hazardous environment is reduced significantly ("Longer Casting Times" PHB 202).
3. Many of the possible gains, such as detect invisibility and levitate, are very situational. The only ones that are likely to have value broadly are healing and long-rest-resource restoration.
4. You are as likely to get a healing surge as you are to fireball or life drain your party. The odds are still pretty low, and in the time it takes to attempt a heal this way six times, you could just take a short rest.
5. That leaves the spell-slot and sorcery-point restoration possibilities. As you say, the spell-slot recharge has less relative value at high levels. There is no way to offset that, since flexible casting allows us to create new slots, not to restore expended ones. It is still a good result at any level.
6. Total sorcery-point recharge looks like the big target. If, however, you convert all your sorcery points to slots and then don't get that result, you have stuffed yourself when combat starts.
7. Feats come at a cost: an ASI, other racial features, or even another feat.
8. In selecting sorcerer for ritual magic, you are taking an absolutely awful option. Taking the ritual magic feat and picking wizard would probably be more useful (though not more fun) than trying to surge every ten minutes.
9. If you are dipping into another Int- or Wis-based class, you will probably be getting ritual casting anyway. That means that you would be taking the feat solely for the surges.
10. If you do multiclass, it costs you sorcerous restoration at twentieth, which is a much more reliable way to regain sorcery points.
11. Probably most importantly, this is asking a lot from the DM and the other players. Not just variant human and feats and letting you roll on the surge table, but also the concession that rituals can trigger surges--not a given, since they do not use spell slots and thus might not be considered first level or higher--other PCs tolerating a character who is constantly lost in a spellcasting ritual and randomly spewing bubbles or floating off the ground in the middle of social interactions or exploring treacherous ruins, and the table-level RP/narratorial consideration of pausing whatever is going on because you say, "Has it been ten minutes? Okay . . . [roll] I'm a sheep now."
With all of that said, if your table is cool with it and it makes for fun, by all means do it. I don't think that it raises the feat above a blue, though it improves once you have got controlled chaos. I will add a note about it in the guide.
1. Each casting only gives you a chance at a surge, unless you have a place to dump tides of chaos. Granted, that can be handled by fire bolting a sparrow every ten minutes, but that's the sort of behavior that brings a person a reputation.
2. Casting a ritual requires your concentration and your action every turn, meaning that your ability to do this in a dungeon or other hazardous environment is reduced significantly ("Longer Casting Times" PHB 202).
3. Many of the possible gains, such as detect invisibility and levitate, are very situational. The only ones that are likely to have value broadly are healing and long-rest-resource restoration.
4. You are as likely to get a healing surge as you are to fireball or life drain your party. The odds are still pretty low, and in the time it takes to attempt a heal this way six times, you could just take a short rest.
5. That leaves the spell-slot and sorcery-point restoration possibilities. As you say, the spell-slot recharge has less relative value at high levels. There is no way to offset that, since flexible casting allows us to create new slots, not to restore expended ones. It is still a good result at any level.
6. Total sorcery-point recharge looks like the big target. If, however, you convert all your sorcery points to slots and then don't get that result, you have stuffed yourself when combat starts.
7. Feats come at a cost: an ASI, other racial features, or even another feat.
8. In selecting sorcerer for ritual magic, you are taking an absolutely awful option. Taking the ritual magic feat and picking wizard would probably be more useful (though not more fun) than trying to surge every ten minutes.
9. If you are dipping into another Int- or Wis-based class, you will probably be getting ritual casting anyway. That means that you would be taking the feat solely for the surges.
10. If you do multiclass, it costs you sorcerous restoration at twentieth, which is a much more reliable way to regain sorcery points.
11. Probably most importantly, this is asking a lot from the DM and the other players. Not just variant human and feats and letting you roll on the surge table, but also the concession that rituals can trigger surges--not a given, since they do not use spell slots and thus might not be considered first level or higher--other PCs tolerating a character who is constantly lost in a spellcasting ritual and randomly spewing bubbles or floating off the ground in the middle of social interactions or exploring treacherous ruins, and the table-level RP/narratorial consideration of pausing whatever is going on because you say, "Has it been ten minutes? Okay . . . [roll] I'm a sheep now."
With all of that said, if your table is cool with it and it makes for fun, by all means do it. I don't think that it raises the feat above a blue, though it improves once you have got controlled chaos. I will add a note about it in the guide.
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