Guilt ridden DM seeks solace...

[scipio]

Hi there everyone. Had a tough game tonight, and am looking for input. Basically, party of 7, all 9th level faced a Young Adult Blue Dragon (CR11), that was Huge instead of Large. One of the characters had a newly minted half-ogre barbarian/frenzied something (tonight was my first savage species experience, and I'm not pleased at all) that could somehow get his strength up to 42 while frenzied raging. Now, half ogres have an ECL of +1, but net +4 on stats, get natural AC, are large, and probably get something else I forgot. Another party member gave him a fly spell, and he charged the dragon. Dragon got an AoO (after the fact, the player stated he was charging with his spear that had a reach of 20, and not his axe - I did not retroactively correct this), and his attack was stopped short due to improved grab and a subsequent grapple.

Long story short, the PC died, the party beat the dragon and I'm still not sure if it was a fair death, or a death that resulted from the fact that I had a really unbalanced character suddenly dropped into my game that I couldn't handle. I'm confident I reacted poorly, but I was hoping to get a few things discussed here. 1) How do you treat material from books you don't own 2)is the half-ogre unbalanced (and in the same vein, is it unfair to the other PCs to let one player have a broken character). 3) what would you do for the player now? Thanks.

 

[FireLance]

Just a couple of comments before I get down to answering the questions you raised:

1. The half-ogre from Savage Species was updated in Races of Destiny. Offhand, I can't remember the specifics, though.

2. I personally think that the Frenzied Berserker is a PrC that can potentially wreck games because of its ability to concentrate a lot of power at one time (rage stacking with frenzy) and the risk of the character going out of control and killing another party member. I wouldn't allow one in my game.

As for your queries:

1) A player who wants to use material from a book that I don't own has to let me eyeball and okay it first, and it is his responsibility to bring that book to game sessions. Another thing I do to prevent characters from getting out of hand is to only allow one non-core option (race, feat, class, spell, PrC, etc.) per level of the character. This is something that I have adapted from the RPGA.

2) I'm not able to comment on whether the revised half-ogre is balanced, but I do feel that it is generally "unfair" to allow one PC that is noticably more powerful than the others. As a rule of thumb, I try to ensure that each PC has a different role or area of specialty (e.g. Action Hero, Influential Hero, Exalted Hero, Arcane Hero, Hero of Nature, etc.) and make sure that each has the opportunity to contribute his specialty to the overall success of the group.

3) Given your doubts as to whether his character is suited for your game, it may be best for him to create a new one, perhaps a core half-orc barbarian if he enjoys playing the hulking smasher.

 

[Treebore]

Firelance is giving advice I agree with. As for the AOO, if he didn't state it at the "right" time, too bad. He must have forgotten tactics in his frenzied rage. I agree with your call on that as well. Why feel guilty?

Plus, never, ever, allow players to play or use things from books you don't have access to. Make them either leave the book with you to check out at your leisure, or have them provide you with copies of the pages from which they will be using things, assuming you eventually say it is OK.

I do not know how much DM experience you have, but remember the rules, especially those outside of the core 3 books, are all optional and up to the DM. This includes all of the Complete books. All you, as the DM, are obligated to do is maintain consistancy, fairness, and a fun game.

BTW, allowing one player to "come into" a game with an uber character when compared to the other long time players is definitely not fair to those who have been there and given you their time and support.

 

[BSF]

I generally do not allow material that I don't own. If the player can do a good job summarizing everything, including advantages/disadvantages and the ways that the combination can be abused, I may allow it. Even then, it is the player's responsibility to have the source material available when we play.

Before any PC is introduced, I have to eyeball it seriously and have a pretty decent feel for how it will integrate with the game. New PCs are usually not allowed to trample into the space I envision another character filling. With 7 PCs in my current game, I have to be careful that each PC has a unique place to shine. Whether the half-ogre is balanced is a different question. Suffice to say that it might be broken in any given campaign.

As for what to do with the player now, I would discuss the next PC with the Player carefully. I try to make it a policy to have the player tell me what kind of character the envision without using any game mechanic terms. I want them to think through things like history and motivations then tell me what would be fun and cool to play. Then I offer my suggestions on what might be the best way to achieve the end goal.

Of course, I allow a wide variety of material and I have more books than most of my players. There are, literally, options available that they are not aware of. So it works out pretty well in my case.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

My theory on books matches Treebore's. Any books that I don't own get OKed by me first, and I retain rights to borrow them for extended periods of time before and after approval.

Frankly, if the PC charged a dragon without mad mad mad support from the rest of the party (and a fly spell doesn't cut it) then death is just a likely outcome.

On 3, I'd discuss the situation with the player. Be open, and honest, but not cruel. I'd ask him to make a more mainstream character for the moment. If you're uncomfortable with something, get it out now, so you don't have to deal with it. From what I hear Savage Species is a wonderful tool, but can cause some weirdness. Be aware.

 

[JoeGKushner]

1) How do you treat material from books you don't own

I don't. I have enough of a library where if the player wants to use something not in a book I have, I have to have access to it to first read, understand what the player's doing, then approve it.

2)is the half-ogre unbalanced (and in the same vein, is it unfair to the other PCs to let one player have a broken character).

Depends on the version. I don't have any experience with the Savage Species one but if it has hit dice like the one in Tome of Horrors, don't forget those hit dice are added to it's level adjustment for a total ECL. I personally like the new one in Races of Destiny. Big bad ugly guy with a +2 level adjustment and no racial hit dice. The Frenzied Berserker on the other hand... that's a PrC I used to great effect on an NPC who was troubled by his path of the "White Crow" where his tribe was dead and he was in mourning but he allowed himself to be killed in battle as a 'morale lesson' to another member of his tribe. I've always found that a good NPC class but poor for PC use.

3) what would you do for the player now?

Nothing. He got a chance to play a really off the wall character, compared to standard ones, and I'll allow him to make a new one with a starting level 2 lower than the rest of the party. Due to the way experience points work in 3.5, he'll catch up relatively quickly.

 

[Thanee]

1) How do you treat material from books you don't own

I allow it, if it is shown to me before the game, when the character is created.

I absolutely would not tolerate a character using stuff from books I have not seen without previously having asked for.

It's usually a good idea to set limits as to what stuff is allowed and to say, that anything beyond that might be allowed on a case-by-case basis, but you want to know before the game starts.

And in general every character should first be approved by the DM. Before the game starts.

2) is the half-ogre unbalanced (and in the same vein, is it unfair to the other PCs to let one player have a broken character).

Dunno about the half-ogre. If one player has a really broken character, which takes away from the fun of the other players, then I don't think this is fair or good or anything. If the other players don't mind, I wouldn't mind either.

3) what would you do for the player now? Thanks.

Allow him to make a new character with the same XP as the old one.

Disallow the Frenzied Berserker PrC.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Turanil]

all 9th level <...> One of the characters had a newly minted half-ogre barbarian/frenzied something (tonight was my first savage species experience, and I'm not pleased at all) that could somehow get his strength up to 42 while frenzied raging.<...>

Looks to me as a min-maxed munchkin the little bastard! Anyway, this was a character that had been created for the session (if I read "newly minted" well), and done for maximal damge before any other consideration. Oh, I won't cry for the loss of this character. 42 Strength, I read munckin here!! Dito for the fact that he changes his mind from "I charge with my (oversized) battleaxe" to "What?! AoO! I mean: I charge with the spear dude!". Let the character die. Frankly, I won't cry over it. Someone does?

 

[scipio]

First off, thanks everybody for your input. To clear some things up, the player did hand me several reams of paper outlining his classes, his feats, etc (all of which I was unfamiliar with). I dithered for a quite a while actually before letting him in the game with this character, as I didn't want one 1 player who would defeat any challenge in a round or two then spend the remaining rounds attacking the party.

His last character had very little impact on the game before bowing out, and the rest of the group didn't really object all that much (until they thanked me after the session), so given all that, I allowed it. I'll take the blame on that score. Yes, he did charge a dragon, and the party only came to assist when he was nearly done. (Of course, in a frenzy, he could not withdraw, and the dragon fought intelligently).

I like the proposal to simply let him build a new one at the same level, and I'll simply ask him to provide materials further in advance to review them.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Great advice already so will not add anything but the way I handle it, I don't until I have a chance to read and approve it, PrC/Templates are the realm of the DM, they should be used to define the game and the world and just dropping one into a game can throw the balance. Players may think they are cool but they are not running the game.