Guns and Leather Coats

[Archade]

In prepping my new campaign world for an upcoming adventure path, I'm highly tempted to use items from Ptolus, as I'm going for a late period, Grimm's Fairy Tale sort of setting (imagine Van Helsing, Brothers Grimm, or Stardust).

The first thing I look to is the leather coat, which also appears in Arcana Unearthed. For 200 gp you get light armor with +4 AC, +4 Max Dex, -2 ACP. For people who have played AU or Ptolus, what's your feedback here? I see this as a replacement for the Acme Adventure Kit of a Heward's Handy Haversack and a Mithril Chain Shirt (now a HHH and a Leather Coat ...)

The second are the firearms. I have a couple of questions.

1) Ptolus requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) to load and fire a gun. I find that a little harsh, so I'll just allow a greater chance of mishap without the proficiency (1-2 the gun backfires and shoots the wielder, 3-4 the gun jams and requires a Craft (machines) DC 15 skill check to fix. Reasonable?

2) Is 1d10 or 2d6 with a critical of 20/x2 reasonable? I'm thinking something that requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency is going to make firearms not worth it to the players. Feedback from those who have played with them?

Thanks!

 

[DarkKestral]

1) Ptolus requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) to load and fire a gun. I find that a little harsh, so I'll just allow a greater chance of mishap without the proficiency (1-2 the gun backfires and shoots the wielder, 3-4 the gun jams and requires a Craft (machines) DC 15 skill check to fix. Reasonable?

2) Is 1d10 or 2d6 with a critical of 20/x2 reasonable? I'm thinking something that requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency is going to make firearms not worth it to the players. Feedback from those who have played with them?

Thanks!

1) On a d6? WAY INCREDIBLY too harsh. On a d20? Still too harsh. If you want them to use guns, make them worth picking as compared to say.. using a bow.

2) A bow can potentially net you a +1 through a +5 in strength bonus, plus is a martial proficiency, and is 1d8 and it's crit stats are 20/x3. In short, you stats aren't the greatest. You're trading crit for damage, which is a nogain according to the obvious weapon classes.. that would make them martial at best.. but frankly not worth it. If you want to offset that, you should probably bump it up a bit.. otherwise exotic weapon proficiency totally sucks. repeating crossbows are 1d10 19-20/x2 but still require exotic proficiency, plus they offer the same benefits as a gun, only they use arrows, which are a lot more common in most campaigns, and probably even have a longer range increment. I'd go with 1d10 and 20/x3 or 19-20/x2 and maybe make repeating crossbows offer some different abilities (crossbows don't harm your stealth when used, but a gun would trigger an instant listen check every time it's fired... so one or the other is situationally better, plus crossbows use arrows)


Beyond that, you still need to offer reasons to use them as opposed to a composite bow; they're cheaper, lighter, have easier requirements, and can balance out that minor loss of 1 avg dmg by paying 100g and having a str. bonus of +1 (and anyone using a bow will typically have at least a flat 10 in str, so all they need is low level magic to get that +1) One possibility is to make guns exotic, but allow guns and crossbows to have a str bonus like a composite, but without needing to have that strength bonus in order to use, but also with a higher cost per upgrade. So you can be a 8 Str weakling and still have a 1d10+5 weapon before counting magical bonuses. It'll be costly, but doable, which may be nice for your rangers, which can suffer from some MAD, depending on build, as they can throw money to save themselves the worry of needing Str, Con, Dex, and Wis and Int by ridding them of the need for Str

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Iron Kingdoms goes 2d6, 19-20/x3 for a military pistol and 2d8, 19-20/x3 for a military rifle, with some things above and (very) few above. I've had 2 pistol wielders in my game for the past 3 years using these rules, and I don't think they're overpowered compared to bows - may be even under-powered. You could say that on a 1 the gun backfires or jams, with the feat eliminating that mishap possibility.

 

[Plane Sailing]

2) Is 1d10 or 2d6 with a critical of 20/x2 reasonable? I'm thinking something that requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency is going to make firearms not worth it to the players. Feedback from those who have played with them?

Looking at existing missile weapons is tricky, since they messed with their implied formula when it comes to crossbows, but this is what I'd go for:

x3 crit damage like all other piercing weapons (except for crossbows)
19-20 threat range due to relative ease of aiming (like crossbows).

The 19-20/x3 is considerably better than any other weapon out there - but hey, isn't that supposed to be the benefit of "technology"?

The gun thus works out as better threat range than the bow and better damage multiplier than the crossbow. I'd probably stick with 1d8 damage to maintain parity on that dimension.

Cheers

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

x3 crit damage like all other piercing weapons (except for crossbows)
19-20 threat range due to relative ease of aiming (like crossbows).

The 19-20/x3 is considerably better than any other weapon out there - but hey, isn't that supposed to be the benefit of "technology"?

The gun thus works out as better threat range than the bow and better damage multiplier than the crossbow. I'd probably stick with 1d8 damage to maintain parity on that dimension.

Or you could vary crit, threat range, & damage by ammo type...

I could easily see an AP round being 1d6 19-20/x4, for instance, or a larger caliber weapon having 2d8 x2.

Then again, there are several sourcebooks containing firearms, and some- like Ultramodern Firearms d20- contain nothing but.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

1) Ptolus requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) to load and fire a gun. I find that a little harsh, so I'll just allow a greater chance of mishap without the proficiency (1-2 the gun backfires and shoots the wielder, 3-4 the gun jams and requires a Craft (machines) DC 15 skill check to fix. Reasonable?

No. You don't penalize a character for choosing a crossbow over a longbow by having his crossbow blow up in his face and require repairs on the battlefield. Why insist that an alternate choice of missile weapons necessitates a DISINCENTIVE to make the choice, especially if the range and damage of the firearm is comparable to bows/crossbows. If the damage is similar, range is similar, rate of fire is similar you don't need to compensate for anything with mishaps, backfires, and jams.

If you're already requiring EWP to use it you're already disincentivizing their use.

 

[Jack Simth]

The first thing I look to is the leather coat, which also appears in Arcana Unearthed. For 200 gp you get light armor with +4 AC, +4 Max Dex, -2 ACP. For people who have played AU or Ptolus, what's your feedback here? I see this as a replacement for the Acme Adventure Kit of a Heward's Handy Haversack and a Mithril Chain Shirt (now a HHH and a Leather Coat ...)

A regular Chain Shirt is Light Armor at +4 AC, +4 Max Dex, -2 ACP, 100 gp. Barring a difference in Arcane Spell Failure or basic weight, the only advantage of the Leather Coat over the Chain Shirt is that it's not metallic, and thus Druids can use it without penalty.

 

[AnonymousOne]

A regular Chain Shirt is Light Armor at +4 AC, +4 Max Dex, -2 ACP, 100 gp. Barring a difference in Arcane Spell Failure or basic weight, the only advantage of the Leather Coat over the Chain Shirt is that it's not metallic, and thus Druids can use it without penalty.

Bingo. I'd make it

+4 AC, +5 Max Dex, -1ACP, 10% arcane fail chance.