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<blockquote data-quote="mmadsen" data-source="post: 5712711" data-attributes="member: 1645"><p>And it has roughly no chance of putting down a 2nd-level ("experienced") combatant.</p><p></p><p>Further, it has roughly zero chance of <em>not</em> putting down an inexperienced combatant in three shots.</p><p></p><p>A weapon doesn't have to be hyper-lethal (in real life) to have a good chance of taking someone out with one hit. It does though in a game using hit points.</p><p></p><p>In real life and in certain genres of action fiction, like samurai movies, we do expect a single sword blow to have a good chance of cutting someone down. In other genres, like Hollywood period pieces, that doesn't happen very often </p><p></p><p>So, it strains credibility that no experienced combatant <em>ever</em> goes down to one mundane sword stroke, in a game like D&D, but it's not <em>that</em> jarring, because we expect that a sword fight should involve a certain amount of back and forth -- and <em>armored</em> combatants certainly <em>can</em> take many glancing blows before their guard is beat down, etc.</p><p></p><p>Guns, on the other hand, are specifically known for bypassing the skilled defense of an experienced fighter. We see this in Indiana Jones, in various samurai movies, in real-life historical lamentations on the passing of the knight with the rise of the musket, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I guess I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't complaining that gun-fighters should get more than one shot per gun per fight; I was complaining that that one shot never kills anyone (experienced). Shooting the enemy sergeant, or captain's mate, or whatever only ever wings him. Then you have to sword-fight for a while, even though he supposedly has a lead ball in him.</p><p></p><p>Certainly there should be <em>some</em> chance of a grazing shot, but it shouldn't be 100 percent.</p><p></p><p>I couldn't find official stats for a deer, but a pony is given 11 hit points, by the book, which means an ordinary hunter with an ordinary hunting bow has roughly zero chance of killing a pony with one arrow. His 1d6-damage arrows also have roughly zero chance of killing a 7-hp deer with one hit -- but a very good chance with two.</p><p></p><p>Should an ordinary hunter with an ordinary bow have a high chance of killing a deer (or a pony) with one arrow? Probably not, but it shouldn't be close to zero -- in either reality or in fiction.</p><p></p><p>My concern isn't overall lethality so much as one-shot lethality. Both knives and guns have the capacity, in real life, to kill experienced combatants in one good hit, or <em>not</em> to kill ordinary folks in dozens of hits.</p><p></p><p>Guns aren't hyper-lethal, but if they <em>can't</em> kill in one shot, they don't feel like guns.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mmadsen, post: 5712711, member: 1645"] And it has roughly no chance of putting down a 2nd-level ("experienced") combatant. Further, it has roughly zero chance of [i]not[/i] putting down an inexperienced combatant in three shots. A weapon doesn't have to be hyper-lethal (in real life) to have a good chance of taking someone out with one hit. It does though in a game using hit points. In real life and in certain genres of action fiction, like samurai movies, we do expect a single sword blow to have a good chance of cutting someone down. In other genres, like Hollywood period pieces, that doesn't happen very often So, it strains credibility that no experienced combatant [i]ever[/i] goes down to one mundane sword stroke, in a game like D&D, but it's not [i]that[/i] jarring, because we expect that a sword fight should involve a certain amount of back and forth -- and [i]armored[/i] combatants certainly [i]can[/i] take many glancing blows before their guard is beat down, etc. Guns, on the other hand, are specifically known for bypassing the skilled defense of an experienced fighter. We see this in Indiana Jones, in various samurai movies, in real-life historical lamentations on the passing of the knight with the rise of the musket, etc. I guess I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't complaining that gun-fighters should get more than one shot per gun per fight; I was complaining that that one shot never kills anyone (experienced). Shooting the enemy sergeant, or captain's mate, or whatever only ever wings him. Then you have to sword-fight for a while, even though he supposedly has a lead ball in him. Certainly there should be [i]some[/i] chance of a grazing shot, but it shouldn't be 100 percent. I couldn't find official stats for a deer, but a pony is given 11 hit points, by the book, which means an ordinary hunter with an ordinary hunting bow has roughly zero chance of killing a pony with one arrow. His 1d6-damage arrows also have roughly zero chance of killing a 7-hp deer with one hit -- but a very good chance with two. Should an ordinary hunter with an ordinary bow have a high chance of killing a deer (or a pony) with one arrow? Probably not, but it shouldn't be close to zero -- in either reality or in fiction. My concern isn't overall lethality so much as one-shot lethality. Both knives and guns have the capacity, in real life, to kill experienced combatants in one good hit, or [i]not[/i] to kill ordinary folks in dozens of hits. Guns aren't hyper-lethal, but if they [i]can't[/i] kill in one shot, they don't feel like guns. [/QUOTE]
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