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<blockquote data-quote="mmadsen" data-source="post: 5714335" data-attributes="member: 1645"><p>I guess I haven't made myself clear. I have not asked for guns to be different in D&D -- and not all differences in lethality are <em>increases</em> in lethality, either.</p><p></p><p>I have said a number of times that I'd simply treat guns as crossbows -- loud, smoky crossbows.</p><p></p><p>If, though, you want guns to behave like guns, then D&D's hit point system models that poorly. It's an imperfect, if workable, system for other weapons, but its flaws stand out when dealing with single-shot weapons that are supposed to be deadly.</p><p></p><p>With D&D's hit point system, you can't hunt with a gun, you can't have a pistol duel, no one (experienced) <em>ever</em> falls in the initial volley of fire, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The ability to take down a high-hp character with one shot is <em>not</em>, by definition, an increase in lethality -- unless you do it by simply increasing the damage until it has a chance of a one-shot stop, which then gives it a near-guarantee of a two-shot stop.</p><p></p><p>Under the D&D model, a 10-hit die character takes 10 normal hits to take down -- nine flesh wounds followed by one telling blow. The "problem" is not that such a character might take nine flesh wounds before finally taking a telling blow; the "problem" is that the first nine shots have roughly zero chance of being a telling blow, and the tenth shot has roughly zero chance of <em>not</em> being a telling blow.</p><p></p><p>If, in a Western game, a .22 pistol has a 1-in-10 chance of taking someone out, it's not particularly lethal or effective -- it takes roughly 10 shots to take the target out -- but it's a threat from the very first shot. You wouldn't sit across the poker table from somebody with a tiny pistol and say, "That <em>can't</em> hurt me!"</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mmadsen, post: 5714335, member: 1645"] I guess I haven't made myself clear. I have not asked for guns to be different in D&D -- and not all differences in lethality are [i]increases[/i] in lethality, either. I have said a number of times that I'd simply treat guns as crossbows -- loud, smoky crossbows. If, though, you want guns to behave like guns, then D&D's hit point system models that poorly. It's an imperfect, if workable, system for other weapons, but its flaws stand out when dealing with single-shot weapons that are supposed to be deadly. With D&D's hit point system, you can't hunt with a gun, you can't have a pistol duel, no one (experienced) [i]ever[/i] falls in the initial volley of fire, etc. The ability to take down a high-hp character with one shot is [i]not[/i], by definition, an increase in lethality -- unless you do it by simply increasing the damage until it has a chance of a one-shot stop, which then gives it a near-guarantee of a two-shot stop. Under the D&D model, a 10-hit die character takes 10 normal hits to take down -- nine flesh wounds followed by one telling blow. The "problem" is not that such a character might take nine flesh wounds before finally taking a telling blow; the "problem" is that the first nine shots have roughly zero chance of being a telling blow, and the tenth shot has roughly zero chance of [i]not[/i] being a telling blow. If, in a Western game, a .22 pistol has a 1-in-10 chance of taking someone out, it's not particularly lethal or effective -- it takes roughly 10 shots to take the target out -- but it's a threat from the very first shot. You wouldn't sit across the poker table from somebody with a tiny pistol and say, "That [i]can't[/i] hurt me!" [/QUOTE]
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