Half-ogre for my campaign...ECL?

[Bran Eaglecleft]

This is my half-ogre for my home-brew campaign. What sort of ECL, if any, should it have? I'm trying to balance it so it has no ECL, any suggestions on how to do that would be appreciated! Thanks in advance!!

Racial Traits:
· +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha
· Medium-Size: As medium sized (barely) creatures, half-ogres have no special bonuses or penalties due to size.
· Half-ogre base speed is 30 feet.
· Brutish Stamina: Half-ogres receive their choice of the Endurance, Great Fortitude, or Toughness feat for free at 1st level.
· +2 to all Intimidate, Listen, and Spot checks.
· -2 penalty to Hide and Move Silently checks.
· Half-ogres can use a bastard sword or dwarven waraxe in one hand without buying the Exotic Proficiencies. They still must have Martial Weapon Proficiency to do so without incurring non-proficiency penalties.
· Due to the broadness of half-ogres, they must pay for armor, shields, and clothing as if they were large creatures (x2 price).
· Giant: Half-ogres are considered giants for purposes of magic items, spells, feats, ranger abilities, etc. Note: Due to the diluted nature of their blood, half-ogres are considered humanoids as well as giants and as such are affected normally by all spells that specifically target humanoids.
· Automatic Languages: Common and Giant. Bonus Languages: Dwarf, Gnome, Gnoll, Goblin, and Orc.
· Preferred Class: None. Half-ogres lack the focus necessary to practice more than one class at a time, thus they always suffer xp penalties when multiclassing.

 

[MythandLore]

As you have it, it’s not that strong at all, weak really, it could be no ECL.

I would however consider why you made it the way you did compared to the Ogre.
Do a kind of reverse engineering on the Ogre.
Most of the power of the ogre comes from the fact that he’s large.
AKA Take the large size from the ogre and you have your half ogre.
Just doing a quick glance over the Ogre, he really sucks without his size.
Man-O-Man does he suck!
Worse then an Orc when he’s mid size.
Way way weaker then a Bugbear at med size too.
It’s really sad.

Racial Traits:
+4 Str (Ogres are +10, 8 is from size, so it should be +2)
+2 Con (Ogre has +4, 4 is from size, so it should be +0)
-2 Dex (Ogre has -2, 2 is from size, so it should be -0)
-2 Int (Ogre has -4, so –2 is okay or you could do –4)
-2 Wis (Ogre has –0 so it should be –0 too)
-2 Cha (Ogre has –2 so yours looks good)
· Medium-Size: As medium sized (barely) creatures, half-ogres have no special bonuses or penalties due to size. (your saying it’s Med, this looks fine)
· Half-ogre base speed is 30 feet. (that’s normal for a med size and an ogre – looks fine)
· Brutish Stamina: Half-ogres receive their choice of the Endurance, Great Fortitude, or Toughness feat for free at 1st level. (this makes little sense the Ogre doesn’t have anything like this)
· +2 to all Intimidate, Listen, and Spot checks. (this makes little sense the Ogre doesn’t have this)
· -2 penalty to Hide and Move Silently checks. (this makes little sense the Ogre doesn’t have this)
· Half-ogres can use a bastard sword or dwarven waraxe in one hand without buying the Exotic Proficiencies. They still must have Martial Weapon Proficiency to do so without incurring non-proficiency penalties.
(this makes little sense the Ogre doesn’t have this – if anything it would be weapon focus & proficiency in club – Ogres have great club)
· Due to the broadness of half-ogres, they must pay for armor, shields, and clothing as if they were large creatures (x2 price). (this is a bad penalty for a med size race, if dwarfs don’t have a problem, he shouldn’t)
· Giant: Half-ogres are considered giants for purposes of magic items, spells, feats, ranger abilities, etc. Note: Due to the diluted nature of their blood, half-ogres are considered humanoids as well as giants and as such are affected normally by all spells that specifically target humanoids. (this makes sense)
· Automatic Languages: Common and Giant. Bonus Languages: Dwarf, Gnome, Gnoll, Goblin, and Orc. (I guess this works ok)
· Preferred Class: None. Half-ogres lack the focus necessary to practice more than one class at a time, thus they always suffer xp penalties when multiclassing. (this is another huge penalty, I would do it, Barb would likely make sense for them)

Okay here’s a quick rundown if you made the chages I just talked about.
Racial Traits:
+2 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha
· Medium-Size: As medium sized creatures, half-ogres have no special bonuses or penalties due to size.
· Half-ogre base speed is 30 feet.
· Half-ogres can use a clubs as if they are Proficiency with them and have weapon focus.
· Giant: Half-ogres are considered giants for purposes of magic items, spells, feats, ranger abilities, etc. Note: Due to the diluted nature of their blood, half-ogres are considered humanoids as well as giants and as such are affected normally by all spells that specifically target humanoids.
· Automatic Languages: Common and Giant. Bonus Languages: Dwarf, Gnome, Gnoll, Goblin, and Orc.
· Preferred Class: Barbarian

I think it would be best to make him large size and take away some of the other race features.
It would make him much closer to how I think a half-ogre would be.
Kinda like this:
Racial Traits:
· -2 Int and +8 Str, +4 Con, -2 Dex due to size.
· Large-Size: As Large sized creatures.
· Half-ogre base speed is 30 feet.
· +2 Natural Armor due to size.
· -1 AC due to size.
· Can use large weapons with one hand and huge weapons with two hands due to size.
· Must have Large size armor (Cost and weight Double).
· Giant: Half-ogres are considered giants for purposes of magic items, spells, feats, ranger abilities, etc. Note: Due to the diluted nature of their blood, half-ogres are considered humanoids as well as giants and as such are affected normally by all spells that specifically target humanoids.
· Automatic Languages: Common and Giant. Bonus Languages: Dwarf, Gnome, Gnoll, Goblin, and Orc.
· Preferred Class: Barbarian

I’d do something like this.

But it’s up to you really, I just wanted to give you a few options to think about.
There's all kinds of things you could do with Half-ogres.
I do think your version is ECL+0 for sure.
I think a Half-orc is probably stronger then your half-ogre and he's one of the weakest races.

 

[Geoff Watson]

I'd say +1 at least.
The stat bonuses seem OK, but bonuses to highly useful skills aren't balanced by penalties to other skills.

Two bonus feats (I count the two EWP feats as one as they are redundant) is quite good, and the increased armour costs won't matter after first level.

Geoff.

 

[Bran Eaglecleft]

Thoughts on my half-ogre...

Take the large size from the ogre and you have your half ogre.

What I was looking fo as a half-ogre was less of a watered-down ogre and more of a race that would stand on it's own but that people would still know what they are looking at...

Racial Traits:
+4 Str (Ogres are +10, 8 is from size, so it should be +2)

I just divided the Str modifier by 2 and rounded down. Half-ogres are quite a bit larger than even half-orcs, so I decided they would be a bit stronger than them, even.

+2 Con (Ogre has +4, 4 is from size, so it should be +0)

Once again the larger size of the half-ogre comes into play. They are larger and heavier than half-orcs so I felt they should be tougher then half-orcs, as well.

-2 Dex (Ogre has -2, 2 is from size, so it should be -0)

Larger than standard races, less agile.

-2 Int (Ogre has -4, so -2 is okay or you could do ?4)

Smarter than ogres, not quite on par with humans.

-2 Wis (Ogre has -0 so it should be -0 too)

I added the Wis penalty to balance the race a little. If raised by humans, they don't have to think about their actions as much. They can fight their way out of any problem. If raised by ogres...they don't have to worry about thinking things through, either. They've got backup.

-2 Cha (Ogre has -2 so yours looks good)
· Medium-Size: As medium sized (barely) creatures, half-ogres have no special bonuses or penalties due to size. (your saying it's Med, this looks fine)
· Half-ogre base speed is 30 feet. (that's normal for a med size and an ogre - looks fine)
· Brutish Stamina: Half-ogres receive their choice of the Endurance, Great Fortitude, or Toughness feat for free at 1st level. (this makes little sense the Ogre doesn't have anything like this)

Brutish Stamina is to represent the ability of the half-ogre to shrug off fatigue, damage, or poisons better than humans. Pure ogres can shrug off all three better than others strictly due to their high Con.

· +2 to all Intimidate, Listen, and Spot checks. (this makes little sense the Ogre doesn't have this)

This is basically a fixer. All of these skills are negatively affected by attribute penalties. Just didn't make sense to me that a 7 and a half foot tall character would have a penalty to Intimidate due to lowered Cha. I've also portrayed ogres as having exceptionally keen senses.

· -2 penalty to Hide and Move Silently checks. (this makes little sense the Ogre doesn't have this)

Simply a direct result of their larger size. Full ogres (being Large) receive a -4 to Hide. It makes sense to me that a larger creature will have a harder time sneaking around.

· Half-ogres can use a bastard sword or dwarven waraxe in one hand without buying the Exotic Proficiencies. They still must have Martial Weapon Proficiency to do so without incurring non-proficiency penalties.
(this makes little sense the Ogre doesn't have this - if anything it would be weapon focus & proficiency in club - Ogres have great club)

Half-ogres, due to their size, have an easier time wielding the slightly oversized weapons than do the smaller races. Larger hands fit on the grips of bastard swords and dwarven waraxes better.

· Due to the broadness of half-ogres, they must pay for armor, shields, and clothing as if they were large creatures (x2 price). (this is a bad penalty for a med size race, if dwarfs don't have a problem, he shouldn't)

Half-ogres are close to 8 feet tall and weigh as much as 400 lbs. Not quite a Large race, but come on!! *grin*

· Giant: Half-ogres are considered giants for purposes of magic items, spells, feats, ranger abilities, etc. Note: Due to the diluted nature of their blood, half-ogres are considered humanoids as well as giants and as such are affected normally by all spells that specifically target humanoids. (this makes sense)
· Automatic Languages: Common and Giant. Bonus Languages: Dwarf, Gnome, Gnoll, Goblin, and Orc. (I guess this works ok)
· Preferred Class: None. Half-ogres lack the focus necessary to practice more than one class at a time, thus they always suffer xp penalties when multiclassing. (this is another huge penalty, I would do it, Barb would likely make sense for them)

I thought about Barbarian as preferred class, but if I did that, no one IMC would play a half-orc. Mainly done for balance purposes. I definitely appreciate the feedback, though!!

 

[Bran Eaglecleft]

I'd say +1 at least.
The stat bonuses seem OK, but bonuses to highly useful skills aren't balanced by penalties to other skills.

Two bonus feats (I count the two EWP feats as one as they are redundant) is quite good, and the increased armour costs won't matter after first level.

Geoff.

The skill bonuses, when looked at in conjunction with attribute penalties give a +1 to all three skills. The skill penalties, when looked at in conjunction with the same, makes a -3 to Hide and Move Silently.

I agree that 2 feats is pretty good, but I feel the Preferred Class: None along with the increased armour costs makes up for it pretty well. Though, I could be wrong!!

Any more comments? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

[Wolf72]

favored class: none

notice, it's not Any ...

just an idea

 

[drowdude]

Kinda like this:
Racial Traits:
· -2 Int and +8 Str, +4 Con, -2 Dex due to size.
· Large-Size: As Large sized creatures.
· Half-ogre base speed is 30 feet.
· +2 Natural Armor due to size.
· -1 AC due to size.
· Can use large weapons with one hand and huge weapons with two hands due to size.
· Must have Large size armor (Cost and weight Double).
· Giant: Half-ogres are considered giants for purposes of magic items, spells, feats, ranger abilities, etc. Note: Due to the diluted nature of their blood, half-ogres are considered humanoids as well as giants and as such are affected normally by all spells that specifically target humanoids.
· Automatic Languages: Common and Giant. Bonus Languages: Dwarf, Gnome, Gnoll, Goblin, and Orc.
· Preferred Class: Barbarian

I’d do something like this.

As would I, those are the exact stats I have for 1/2 Ogres IMC

 

[XCorvis]

That is the best Half-orge I've seen so far. Very nicely done, I wouldn't change a thing. As it stands it could probably be a strong ECL +0 or a weak +1.