Half-orc dad, half-elf mom --> 'human' child?
- Thread starter Driddle
- Start date
Tarril Wolfeye
First Post
You're all doing it wrong. 
Using the Scientific Method we should
1. Examine reality (what are the rules for half-races)
- human + elf = half-elf; human + orc = half-orc; human + ogre = half-ogre (RoD)...
- half-humans are races, other half-races are templates
- half-humans inherit weaker traits from their non-human part
- other half-races inherit all traits from their "weaker" part and modify them
- some templated half-races can go either way: half-dragon fiend / half-fiend dragon
2. Formulate a hypothesis (or just guess at the underlying principles)
- half humans result in mixing the "weak" human race with other races, diluting those
- other half-races result in superimposing a racial energy on the "weaker" part
- half-races can only result from an unequal pairing, two equally "strong" races don't mix
- humans are the weakest race, followed by other humanoids, then everyone else
- if two "strong" races mix, the resulting half-race is mostly chosen by chance
3. Test our hypothesis (against the feel of "what's right", by looking at the consequences)
- there could be half-dwarves or half-hobgoblins or even half-halflings
- the "racial energy" seems to be magical, so it breaks even barriers of monster type
- there can be no orc/elf-hybrid except via templates
- humans are "special" in a strange way; everything can mate with humans
- every non-human half-race should use the template rules
4. Modify our hypothesis based of the results of 3.
- put half-dwarves and other new half-races in our campaigns or explain their non-existence
- can we detect this "racial magical energy"; if not, why? Is it even magical?
- if we really want an orc/elf-hybrid we must scrap the theory
- don't like "special" humans? Just change the theory
- if there's a non-human half-race that's not a template, we must adjust the theory.
And 5. Start over if there is anything we cannot make fit.
We should use genetics only if it fits what we know.
(/smartass)
Using the Scientific Method we should
1. Examine reality (what are the rules for half-races)
- human + elf = half-elf; human + orc = half-orc; human + ogre = half-ogre (RoD)...
- half-humans are races, other half-races are templates
- half-humans inherit weaker traits from their non-human part
- other half-races inherit all traits from their "weaker" part and modify them
- some templated half-races can go either way: half-dragon fiend / half-fiend dragon
2. Formulate a hypothesis (or just guess at the underlying principles)
- half humans result in mixing the "weak" human race with other races, diluting those
- other half-races result in superimposing a racial energy on the "weaker" part
- half-races can only result from an unequal pairing, two equally "strong" races don't mix
- humans are the weakest race, followed by other humanoids, then everyone else
- if two "strong" races mix, the resulting half-race is mostly chosen by chance
3. Test our hypothesis (against the feel of "what's right", by looking at the consequences)
- there could be half-dwarves or half-hobgoblins or even half-halflings
- the "racial energy" seems to be magical, so it breaks even barriers of monster type
- there can be no orc/elf-hybrid except via templates
- humans are "special" in a strange way; everything can mate with humans
- every non-human half-race should use the template rules
4. Modify our hypothesis based of the results of 3.
- put half-dwarves and other new half-races in our campaigns or explain their non-existence
- can we detect this "racial magical energy"; if not, why? Is it even magical?
- if we really want an orc/elf-hybrid we must scrap the theory
- don't like "special" humans? Just change the theory
- if there's a non-human half-race that's not a template, we must adjust the theory.
And 5. Start over if there is anything we cannot make fit.
We should use genetics only if it fits what we know.
(/smartass)
glass
(he, him)
How about this:
What if there are two parallel methods of heridity: heredity of body (ie genetics) and heredity of spirit (some other mechanism). The former works more or less like it does IRL (to the limits of the DMs understanding). The latter works under it own set of rules (which we can make up).
Which method is more significant varies from pairing to pairing: for example, demons would probably have no genetics at all, but very compatible spirits.
Humans, elves and orcs would be genetically compatible (the same species), orcs and elves would be spiritually incompatible with each other.
Whatya think?
glass.
What if there are two parallel methods of heridity: heredity of body (ie genetics) and heredity of spirit (some other mechanism). The former works more or less like it does IRL (to the limits of the DMs understanding). The latter works under it own set of rules (which we can make up).
Which method is more significant varies from pairing to pairing: for example, demons would probably have no genetics at all, but very compatible spirits.
Humans, elves and orcs would be genetically compatible (the same species), orcs and elves would be spiritually incompatible with each other.
Whatya think?
glass.
ender_wiggin said:
Speciation isn't quite that simple. Capability of interbreed is a major component used to define species, but it is not the only thing. Consider that every single extinct species ever classified has gone through the process without any check of how it interbreeds. For them, it's all done on phenotype, mostly only skeletal structure.
And then there's things like dogs - large number of phenotypes available, to the point where physically, interbreeding cannot happen. But genetically all the same species.
Humans are a bit odd - as a species, despite out racial phenotypes, we have a remarkably low level of genetic diversity. So perhaps we aren't considering that elves and orcs are the same species, but something a bit more broad - that D&D humanoids are all one species, like dogs. Humans, elves, dwarves, orcs goblins, hobgoblins... all one under the skin.
The limitations on breeding between some of them may be more akin to things seen in dogs - more a matter of physical or developmental issues than genetic incompatability. Tack on top of that the social differences, and you're all set. One common humanoid species, in the process of speciation to fill many niches.
Aeolius
Adventurer
Bagpuss said:
No planetouched tieflings or aasimar in your campaigns, then?
I typically follow Nigel Findley's example in DRAGON #125. In "The Ecology of the Greenhag", he desribed greenhags as the daughters of night hags and humans, while the annis was the daughter of a greenhag by either a hill giant or ogre. The daughters of an annis were females of the father's race, though with a blue tint to their skin.
Granted, I've added to that a bit.
Generally, my hags breed with just about everything and produce viable offspring by the union.By 'simple' genetics...like for determination of sex, yes....
Male = XY
Female = XX
drawing up a simple genetic chart you get a 50% chance of a female and a 50% chanc eof a male.
Race is not a simple gene. Take skin color. In an interratial breeding between an extremely dark skilled person and an extremely lightskinned person, the skin colors of the children will vary from dark to light. None will be as dark as the dark skinned parent or as light as the light skinned parent. If two mulatos were to breed, odds are their children would not be extremely dark skinned or extremely light skinned.
Nationality isn't a good analogy as genetics don't know anything about what country you are from.
As for the case at hand, the children of a breeding between an half orc and a half elf, IFF we consider that orcs and humans are not completely different species and can breed true, may be something looking like an orc, something looking like an elf, or something looking like a human or some mucky mix.
Personally, I would make the person playing the child of such a union decide which 'race' they would claim their abilities and such from. Some may be more bestial and orclike, some may be more fine and elflike, some may be more akin to humans. If the character is one of the parents, I'd make sure to make the child a roleplaying tool. Perhaps the child looks like an elf if the character lives in an orc community.
Male = XY
Female = XX
drawing up a simple genetic chart you get a 50% chance of a female and a 50% chanc eof a male.
Race is not a simple gene. Take skin color. In an interratial breeding between an extremely dark skilled person and an extremely lightskinned person, the skin colors of the children will vary from dark to light. None will be as dark as the dark skinned parent or as light as the light skinned parent. If two mulatos were to breed, odds are their children would not be extremely dark skinned or extremely light skinned.
Nationality isn't a good analogy as genetics don't know anything about what country you are from.
As for the case at hand, the children of a breeding between an half orc and a half elf, IFF we consider that orcs and humans are not completely different species and can breed true, may be something looking like an orc, something looking like an elf, or something looking like a human or some mucky mix.
Personally, I would make the person playing the child of such a union decide which 'race' they would claim their abilities and such from. Some may be more bestial and orclike, some may be more fine and elflike, some may be more akin to humans. If the character is one of the parents, I'd make sure to make the child a roleplaying tool. Perhaps the child looks like an elf if the character lives in an orc community.
Tarril Wolfeye
First Post
I like it a lot. And it's not a tangled mess, unlike my "Scientific Method".glass said:
