Half-orc dad, half-elf mom --> 'human' child?

[Driddle]

I have not apologized for anything I've written in this thread, nor do I intend to.

There is no shame in apologizing, Josh. Don't succumb to peer pressure to strike a stubborn tough-guy pose.

So you're an expert, huh? I wish I'd looked at your profile first for clarification before I gave a nod to the wrong person.

Torm, you're out. My new best friend Josh is in.

 

[Desdichado]

I'm not sure if I've been elaborately punkd or something here, but anyway...

yeah, Driddle's my new best friend.

 

[fanboy2000]

In D&D orcs, elves, and humans are not defined as different species. They are simply different "races" and so further mixing could be allowable or not with normal genetics depending on what DMs want to load into the term for their campaign concept.

I disagree. For example, Dragons can breed with creatures that ordinarily can't breed together. Is everyone part of the Dragon species? Maybe in some campaigns, but it certainly is the default.

 

[The_Universe]

Damned double post!

 

[The_Universe]

Wouldn't work.
Real-world example:
My mom is half german and half irish
My dad is half german and half danish
So I am half german, quarter irish and quarter danish.

For your half orc/half elf couple a child produced would be:
Half human, quarter orc and quarter elf.

Well, that's maybe true in the traditional sense, but not the genetic one.
________________
| |
Orc | Elf |
_______ |________|
| |
Human | Human |
_______ |________|

If one assumes that that orcs, humans, and elves all have 2 chromosomes (and that's probably reasonable, considering that they all can apparently produce fertile offspring with eachother) then the overwhelming genetic makeup is likely to favor only one of a few possibilities -

So what are the possible combinations of the child's genetic makeup?

Orc+Elf (Probably stillborn?)
Orc+Human (Half-Orc - favors daddy!)
Human+Elf (Half-Elf - favors mommy!)
Human+Human (Human!)
Elf+Orc (Stillborn)
Elf+Human (Half-Elf - favors mommy!)
Human+Orc (Half-Orc - favors Daddy!)
Human+Human (favors grandparents? Human!)

So - while the child's appearance would probably be a blend of his or her parents and grandparents, the overall statblock (for obvious reasons) should probably come from an existing race - in all, I agree with the original post. The child would have a 25% of being stillborn, a 25% of being a half-elf, a 25% of being a half-orc, and a 25% chance of being Human.

 

[Umbran]

Actually, if genetics mattered, the closest real world analogy is what happens when you have two couples, each with one brown eyed and one blue eyed.

Hm, I'm surprised that I don't see a better real-world analogy - dog breeds.

Let's take Spot. Spot is half Black Lab, and half Standard Poodle.
Then take Rover. Rover is half Black Lab, and half German Shepherd.

If we breed Spot and Rover, we will never get a full blooded Black Lab out of the mix. While the resulting dog may be rather lab-ish, it also may not. It's a mutt, plain and simple.

The game rules don't have a choice for "mutt humanoid", but also require that we choose some race. The choice to call him human for mechanics is a reasonable easy solution, but that doesn't say that he really and truely is human. It's just that for purposes of game mechanics, it's the race to which he'd have the greatest similarities.

 

[Desdichado]

Exactly what I was trying to get across, Umbran, but you've done it much more deftly than I.

 

[Mordane76]

Using the consideration of D&D races being of the same species, this is a great analogy, Umbran, and a very nice way of phrasing it, and arscott pointed out a very nice way of denoting this as well - Shadow Heritage from d20 Modern.

Maybe a 'mutt human' would received the benefits from the Shadow Heritage feat (low light and the save bonus), and one other MINOR ability from a parental race for +0 LA? Or maybe give them a bonus first level feat or the skill points bonus from Human, but obviously not both, alongside the Shadow Heritage feat benefits for +0 LA.

 

[Voadam]

I disagree. For example, Dragons can breed with creatures that ordinarily can't breed together. Is everyone part of the Dragon species? Maybe in some campaigns, but it certainly is the default.

There is nothing in the rules that I have read that says race=species.

In a biological sense if dragons can interbreed with anything and produce fertile offspring then yes everything is dragon species.

But this brings up another option for the DM. Perhaps the pair cannot interbreed and produce offspring. Perhaps no half "race" can. It is an arbitrary decision for a DM to decide for his campaign.

 

[painandgreed]

The game rules don't have a choice for "mutt humanoid", but also require that we choose some race.

How about Mongrel Men?

As far as dragons breeding with other stuff, I was always under the impression that they did so while polymorphed into the species that they were mating with. of course, this begs the questions of other races that are polymorphed doing the same. Can I have a half-pixie?

In such cases, I'd probably just say that the majority race (human in this case) takes over and any result of their quarter orc|elf is left the player or DM for flavor text traits.