Harmful potions & syringes

[The_Fan]

In the Dungeon magazine adventure "The Whispering Cairn" there is a villain named Filge who uses syringes as a delivery system for potions. I asked for help on the systems on the Paizo boards, but...umm...yeah. I don't think I'll be going there for advice again anytime soon. :\

Anyway, my idea for how to work a syringe is to make it a melee attack with a -4 penalty (technically an improvised weapon) that deals no damage, but penetrates DR as a piercing weapon that does an amount of damage equal to 1+str. If it would deal damage, then the user can inject the syringe as a free action, activating the spell in the potion as if the creature had imbibed it.

The reason I'm wondering about this is because in Filge's lair there is a potion of ghoul touch. Following the standard rules for potions, where the drinker is both the caster and the target, this potion is useless except in an offensive manner. I may be missing something in the rules for ghoul touch though.

So what do you think of the possibility of offensive potions?

 

[Alejandro]

I play AE, so am pretty relaxed about the possibility of offensive potions (these are called detonations in AE). The syringe seems like a flavorful delivery mechanism, but your rules seem unnecessarily complicated. Touch attack provoking an AoO seems much easier.

 

[wgreen]

There are a couple of ways to handle this.

First, you might just rule-zero the rule about the imbiber of a potion being both the effective caster of the spell and the target. Then, drinking a potion of ghoul touch would imbue the drinker with the negative energy mentioned in the spell description, to be discharged via a touch attack; the imbiber is the effective caster, but not the target.

I do like the idea of injected potions, though. Your proposed rules seem good, although I'd ditch the DR-related stuff. If you want to give an injection to someone with DR, you need the right kind of needle -- cold iron, silver, magic, whatever. The magic weapon family of spells would come in handy for those unwilling or unable to craft permanent magic syringes. (Those would be rather unsanitary, anyway, wouldn't they?)

Just my thoughts.

-Will

 

[the Jester]

I dig that npc and the syringe idea. The Age of Worms is off to a good start.

I, too, have been thinking about offensive potions via syringe. I was just thinking it would be a touch attack that provokes attacks of opportunity.

 

[Endur]

I think you would need to grapple and pin someone. Then you could use the syringe.

Syringes are not weapons and you could not wield one in combat against a resisting enemy.

 

[TheGogmagog]

I think you would need to grapple and pin someone. Then you could use the syringe.

Syringes are not weapons and you could not wield one in combat against a resisting enemy.

That was my first impression, you would need to have the target held or helpless, like driving a stake through a vampire hart.
Alternativly, I would allow it as a grapple, probably with the -4 improvised weapon penalty. You would make your to hit touch AC (-4 no big deal) and then succeed a grapple check to keep it in while you pressed the plunger in.

 

[William_2]

I think offensive potions are essentially magical poisons, and could use the range of delivery rules available for those.
I agree that a syringe seems entirely unsuited as a weapon, and I could only see it being used on an immobilized opponent, not even one who is merely grappled.
Even using them as a voluntary means of ingesting potions seems rather dubious – unless potions take effect faster, or stronger, this way, it seems needlessly complicated.
As flavor for a villain, I agree that it is kind of cool once. I would tend not to introduce it as anything common, though.

 

[The_Fan]

Everyone seems to be suggesting a touch attack, but my problem with a touch attack is the following things aren't accounted for in a touch attack:

Armor (the needle penetrates platemail?!)
Shield (goes through a tower shield?!)
Natural armor (it works on a crocodile?)

Grapple and pin is a definate possibility. I didn't give it an attack of opportunity for the same reason that a touch spell doesn't have one: It's a glowing hand/pointy needle full of glowing green stuff. He'll be trying to keep his distance.

Another random thought: I think there's room for an exotic weapon proficiency here, especially since Filge's syringes look to be almost dagger sized, albeit thinner.

 

[the Jester]

(That pic of him with the syringe in Dungeon is really cool, innit?? )