Has 3.5E "failed"?

[CleverName]

I would say a big "NO" on both counts.

Game revision is natural and healthy, once every 3-5+ years will be the norm for D&D from now on. That has been the way of things for HEALTHY game systems for years. WW had 3-4 revisions, Warhammer's gone through 6, Cthulhu 4-5. I think the root of a lot of D&D fans uproar over 3 and 3.5 came from the fact that they naturally became used to the (IMHO) bad business practices of TSR.

Revisions will happen -- some revisions will be very minor, such as the impending revision of HERO in '05; others will moderately sweeping, like 3.5 or HERO 5th; and some will be huge, like WoDII or 3.0. That's the way it is and it is good.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Well, considering that those overpriced books have been driving sales better than they have been in 10 years, I'd say their strategy of drivin' 'em away is failing miserably.

That is because all of us D&D kids who grew up playing it in the 70's have grown up now. Everyone knows that D&D players are intellectually a cut above the rest and so we all have high paying jobs and can afford the high priced books. Where once we had to get our parents to buy books for us we can now go on-line or to our FNGS and with a swipe of our check-cards we can freely load up on gaming products.

 

[diaglo]

Whoa! You know people who picked up multiple copies?

i have multiple copies of many of my D&D books...from OD&D(1974) on up.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

We need sales figures to realy tell if it was a failure or not (and no I do not expect Hasbro to ever release those). Remember though from Chaiinmail, the issue for Hasbro is not whether it makes a profit but how big that profit is. From everything we have been told about Chainmail it was profitable, just not as profitable as Hasbro wanted. I'm sure 3.5 is profitable, but for Hasbro success or failure is whether it reaches a target goal for profitablity (and we don't know what that goal is).

As for me it is a failure. I like so few things about 3.5 that it is not worth it to me. I have gennerally stopped complaining only to help keep things civilized. As for Hasbro they better hope that the percentage of alienated customers like myself are accounted for in the sales forecasts. I bought every book they released for 3.0, I have bought Zero books they have released under 3.5. I know I am not alone in this, the question for them is how many are we and are our numbers an acceptable loss in overall sales?

 

[Henry]

Where once we had to get our parents to buy books for us we can now go on-line or to our FNGS and with a swipe of our check-cards we can freely load up on gaming products.

Well, there is a sales addage that says you get fewer complaints from buyers of higher-priced items. Whatever the reason, which is quite debateable, I've seen first hand in a retail atmosphere that items with more expensive price tags sell fewer units, but attract clientele who have more problems, and more time is spent on support of these customers than on customers who have spent more and have fewer complaints.

Not saying this is instantly true of RPG markets as well, but some of that trend could be carrying over here - going with the market that offers higher profit margins with fewer complaints.

 

[Gallo22]

Well, I bought the books like many did, and while I like many of the changes, my group and I have not really used the 3.5 rules yet. We really find 3.0 to be just fine and we have a great time with what we are using.

Im planning on starting a new adventure for them soon and will use some of the new rules, like the core classes and changes to some feats and skills, but thats really about it. I did not like most of the spell changes and my group really do not abuse the broken spells in 3.0.

No one in the group but me has any of the new books and none of them plan on getting them either. They mostly see it as a waste of money since the 3.0 books are fine for them.

i don't think 3.5 is a failure by any means, but I guess I don't see eveyone needing them or wanting them as much as 3.0 when it first came out.

I think an smaller update book with the changes they made in a format similar to Unearthen Arcana would have done better. Just my opinion?

Gallo22

 

[Gallo22]

As for me it is a failure. I like so few things about 3.5 that it is not worth it to me. I have gennerally stopped complaining only to help keep things civilized. As for Hasbro they better hope that the percentage of alienated customers like myself are accounted for in the sales forecasts. I bought every book they released for 3.0, I have bought Zero books they have released under 3.5. I know I am not alone in this, the question for them is how many are we and are our numbers an acceptable loss in overall sales?

To respond to this. I really buy most of my books now second hand, meaning I wait a good 6 months or so and find it cheap on ebay or the like for less than 1/2 price. I know this might not help the the hobby too much, but I really can't see spending $35.00 for a new book that has ALMOST the same information as previous books, i.e. the Complete Warrior. It is really just a rehash of the 3.0 books. I'm really glad I waited and got CW for $11.00 on line. I'll probably do this for many of the other books to come. Look at the Players Guide to Faerun. 99% of it (from the index description) is material i have in other books. I'm not going to pay top $$ again for the same information.

Gallo22

 

[Crothian]

Whoa! You know people who picked up multiple copies?

Extra copies are handy for away the gaming table.

 

[I'm A Banana]

*shrug*

If it was a failure, I'm pretty sure it wasn't a financial one.

It could be that WotC just didn't like how much this alienated a lot of the community. It divided and fractured the market along edition lines again -- perhaps the transition didn't go as smoothly as they could have hoped, and it really irked some of the crowd.

I mean, they reacted pretty strongly to that whole "decency clause" scandal. I would say that they may have had higher hopes for 3.5 to be embraced, but that was dissapointing. They may have wished the market hadn't fractured. And thus, they may be MUCH more careful in releasing revisions in the future.

 

[Wolffenjugend]

I think we won't know if 3.5 was/is a failure or not until 4E comes out. If WotC puts it out too soon, they'll face a real backlash (IMO). But if they wait, say another 5 years, then I think everyone will move on and forget about the 3.0 to 3.5 revisions.

How many people still play 1E? 2E? Not very many. And once 4E comes along, the same will eventually happen to 3.5 (and 3.0 for that matter). A lot of the people playing 3.0 can do so b/c the changes in 3.5 weren't all that great. The real test will come with 4E when everyone has to switch over due to conversion difficulties.