Has 3rd Party Material Helped (!!!) WotC ?

[Crothian]

It's interesting that so many people have such negative things to say about WotC, yet WotC kicks every other company's butt when it comes to sales. I realize that EN World is a niche of fandom, but you can't ignore the facts.

Wizards does a lot of things good. But its really the name people are buying. I bet if we took a manuscript from Wizards and then some from other d20 companies and showed them to gamers without knowledge of who wrote what, there would be a very even distrubtion of what was best. Don't ignore the facts that Wizards has the name recogniztion and the market power to be sold in places that few other RPGs get sold in. I don't think Wizards is number one becasue they are the best, I think they are number one becasue lots of people just don't know what else is really out there.

 

[Graf]

Leaving aside the quality arguements (which are a bit too subjective to really go anywhere) the point of the SRD was -always- to help wizards bottom line.

Ryan D. spelled it out waaaaay back when.
Wizards makes most of its money off of sales of the Core Books. Write once, print for 5 years and make a killing.
The other supplements almost certainly make money, but the primary function, I expect, is to train up staff so they can make the next set of Core Books.

Having said that.... I think that a lot of 3rd party publishers aren't doing themselves any favors with their treatment of the rules.

 

[Turjan]

Having said that.... I think that a lot of 3rd party publishers aren't doing themselves any favors with their treatment of the rules.

For me, the times of sorting the quality of books by publisher have long passed by, although I admit that there are a few publishers where it's much more likely to find a quality supplement. A look at the name of the author proved to be more helpful for me .

 

[Pants]

For my part, with 3rd party books, everyone is usually praising some book about how much better it is and how fantastic it is and then, when I finally buy it, I'm completely underwhelmed. Either with rules-usage, presentation, or just lack of.... um.... 'oomphness.' Pretty much the only book (this is counting ALL d20 books) I've bought that's lived up to it's initial hype was the Monsternomicon.

With WotC, you always have a fairly vocal group of detractors saying how 'x sucks,' 'y is overpowered,' and that 'z doesn't stick to ancient canonical information presentated in Jakandor by a coked up developer on his usenet group' that I usually have no expectations whatsoever. Thus, I'm usually pleased, except in some rare cases... *cough*Planar Handbook and Deities and Demigods*cough*

So, I guess I just don't see how superior 3rd party products *usually* are. Everyone is on an equal playing field with me. The 3rd parties put out good books, WotC puts out good books, 3rd parties put out bad books, WotC puts out bad books, some 3rd party books have crappy rules, and some WotC books have crappy rules.

So I really don't buy into the whole 'WotC is superior' or 'X Company is superior' attitude. I have companies that I LIKE more, but everyone messes up.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Just to clarify my stance - I am not biased against WotC.

The question that I ask, whether 3rd party or WotC is 'Will I use this in my games?' I tend to be slow in regards to making a decision, circling like a vulture over a dying cow, and only making a purchase when I am sure.

Most of the material by WotC does not fit the flavor of my games. This is not a good/bad judgement, but rather a flavor issue. It can be wonderful, but if I do not feel it will fit I ignore it. That said, I tend to treat D20/OGL material as a buffet, picking items from a lot of sources, item by item rather than source by source. So, while there is much of Heroes of Battle that I will not use there was enough for it to be a worthwhile purchase (though I found it a bit dear).

The Mongoose Quints usually have enough material to be worthwhile, often the side materials, such as the rules for libraries in the Quint. Wizard book, are what sell the book to me. I found enough material in D20 Deadlands that while I will never use it in its own right I do not entirely regret the purchase. The original splatbooks have enough to keep me happy in that same regard, if I had not purchased them then I would probably have bought the Complete books, in this case WotC is competing with their own earlier releases - too much overlapping material.

Critter books... I prefer to tailor to a setting, ditto for feats and PrCs. Again a flavor issue rather than a good/bad judgement. So I will buy a Monsternomicon over a Monster Manual 2 every time.

Stormwrack covers concepts that I use in every campaign, so while I fully expect to ignore 75% of the material there may well be enough to make it a good purchase. By contrast I greatly prefered Frost & Fur to Frostburn, but while I have not yet purchased Frostburn I may well decide to purchase it when/if I run an arctic game.

That said, I do think that the D20 license helps WotC, if it were not for third party support I would have dropped the game years ago, it is all the cooks adding to the buffet that make the meal worth eating. And one or two purchases a year from WotC is better than none.

The Auld Grump

 

[Mokona]

So, in essence, what is WotC to do? Third party publishers are a form of outsourcing. Most third party publishers don't report to corporate bureacracies. Many third party designers don't do this as their day job. They can "afford" (yeah, I know, some can't) to put out smaller print run items and give the customers support that WotC could not afford to provide. Further, if the skaff effect is to be beleived, the variety offered by third party products helps keep players in the network and reduces the inefficiencies of players returning from other systems. And networks are vital to WotC's strategy.

I vote for everything Psion said in the post quoted (including the text I didn't repeat here). My games are WotC-only and I've sold all the 3rd party D20 material that I acquired over the past few years. I like it that way. Half the reason I buy RPG books is for the art and that makes WotC product head and shoulders above the competition.

I'm happy that all the fringe players have a large variety of 3rd party D20 material available to them because that means I can convince them to play in D&D games once in a while.

 

[Turjan]

Most of the material by WotC does not fit the flavor of my games. This is not a good/bad judgement, but rather a flavor issue. It can be wonderful, but if I do not feel it will fit I ignore it.

I take a similar approach. I only buy books that interest me, and there were not so many titles in the WotC buffet of the last months that piqued my interest. I bought Lords of Madness, because I love aberrations for my game, and I may pick up DMG II. I definitely bought more stuff from other companies.

Half the reason I buy RPG books is for the art and that makes WotC product head and shoulders above the competition.

I don't think that's true, although art is certainly a matter of personal taste . Sure, WotC uses some of the better material, but I found many FFG titles quite remarkable regarding art, and even some of the GR titles were pretty good as far as art goes (Hammer & Helm, Wrath & Rage). Arcana Evolved also contains a few neat pieces.

 

[Mark]

DMG II is pretty damned good. I'd have to say that of the companies whose material I regularly see, WotC has one of the best track records for consistently putting out the goods. Of course, CMG rocks on toast and a few other companies are great, also. I'm looking at you, GR!. Expeditious Retreat Press, some of the L&L stuff from FFG, some Bastion, some AEG, a surprising number of Mongoose books, Goodman Games, Atlas, some stuff from The Game Mechanics, Blue Devil, The Le, and Ken Hood, all have a place on my shelves and virtual shelves as material I'm proud to use both in-game as as source material for development of my own projects.

 

[Pants]

Arcana Evolved also contains a few neat pieces.

AE has pretty damned impressive art, though I'd say it has the same consistent quality as some of the better WotC books; some good, some bad.

Out of all the companies, I'd say Privateer Press (yeah, I'm pimping them again) puts out the most 'consistently good' artwork in their books.

 

[Graf]

For me, the times of sorting the quality of books by publisher have long passed by, although I admit that there are a few publishers where it's much more likely to find a quality supplement. A look at the name of the author proved to be more helpful for me .

As a witty rejoinder this comment as merit, however if you're saying that publisher policies have no impact on the quality of the book.... I think you're wrong.

I think most Authors will admit that their best final work comes from having a decent editor and a decent editorial process.