Has anyone posted a review of Tome of Secrets?

I have the book and gave it a good read through.

Classes:

Artificer: seems like a good adaptation. Needs minor tweaking (as written the class can use weird science to make a device that fires off about 20 level 1-4 spells in a single standard action. But if you use your noggin it won't be hard to fix this class for play)

Priest: I actually found the priest to be slightly broken. With an improved channel (d8's instead of d6's), access to 3 domains, the best spell progression in the game for non-spontaneous casters(maxing out at 5+2 per spell level as opposed to 4+1 of regular clerics and 4 even of wizards), the ability to spontaneously convert spells into domain spells in addition to cures, access to 3 domains instead of 2, and bardic knowledge It just seems a little buku. I am going to let in into my game after modification. I just have not decided how yet.

Knight: is a sub par version of the fighter. He has a very harsh set of RP requirements than include not taking flanking bonuses or attacking flat footed opponents. And his biggest bonus comes in the form of bonuses to attacks made while mounted. I would probably sub out their mounted combat features for the fighters regular weapon abilities.

Shaman: is an odd divine class. Spontaneous caster like the sorcerer (but working off of the druid spell list) and a channel ability that cannot harm or heal anything but spirits (fey, constructs, outsiders and incorporeal). It is definitely a neat class, but not a very good healer as written. Would allow in my game (possibly altering spirit channel to include the ability to heal living folks)

Spellblade: looks very much like a toned down arcane version of the mind blade (minus the ability to turn melee weapons into ranged weapons). It is basically a mid range BaB progression with the ability to enchant their weapons in various ways on the fly. I would allow in my game as is.

Swashbuckler: probably my favorite class in the book. It is an excellent dexterous fighter kind of class. Employing a thrust maneuver that is sort of like sneak attack (But not as good damage wise) a few fighter abilities peppered in. The class feels like something that I could plop in my game that would give another option to my martial types that is not necessarily a clearly better type of deal, but rather a change in play style deal.

Warlock: is a really odd bird. It gets no spells, but rather the school abilities that all mages get when they choose their specialization. Every odd level they choose a new power from the list, and their lists includes a 4th level and 12th level power for all schools (where as the core book just has 1st level and 8th level in most cases). The powers are selected piecemeal. I honestly do not know how this class will play. It seems at a casual glance that it would underpowered. But it does have better HD, BaB, and weapon/armor options than a typical caster, so it may make some really neat gish type characters. Would allow in my game.

Warlord: Honestly this feels like a PFRPG version of the marshal. Fighter BaB, a few bonus feats, some sliding bonuses on attacks and certain saves (like vs. fear for instance) for folks near the warlord. And an ability not unlike the channel ability of other divine classes, with the noted exception that it gives temporary hit points (with a duration of "the rest of the battle"). The class feels very 4e in its design. Would allow into my game, with the single issue that I may change the temp HP to regular healing.

Races:

Half Ogre: would not allow as is. I think giving a race +4 to strength is a mistake and needless power creep. would change their racial stat adjustments.

Ratkin: Would allow. There is some room for player cheese as these critters while being immune diseases themselves, can carry diseases that they have been targeted with and spread them with their bite.

Saurians: My favorite rave in the book. Good flavor on their descriptions. Very dying out anachronism kind of race. Lots of good RP potential. Would allow as is.

Flaws:

Would not allow as is. Each flaw gives the character 4 skill points. Some of the flaws are as simple as I cannot talk to members of the opposite sex without making a fool of myself, to flaws that let the DM take away one success a session (advised in the flaw as when you need to succeed the most), to flaws that give static penalties to certain attack rolls. Would definitely add a score of 1-4 to each making some of the less penalizing ones worth less skill points, and possibly even add a random table in to roll for them.


Backgrounds: Love them. Intend to use them as a part of character creation (rolled randomly before ability scores). Would use as is. Reminds me of secondary skills AD&D style, except they have more game influence. They basically add a class skill or two to your list, and if you get a lucky roll maybe a bonus feat.

Morale rules: Would not use at all. These rules are basically another set of hit points to track for your mental condition. In my mind your regular HP already cover your mental state in an abstract way. I would possibly use them for some type of mass combat rules and the morale of units. But I would not touch them with a 10 foot pole in regular play (despite the rules being well written). It just would add to much paperwork that I am not willing to do for the value they would add.

Skillful stunts: Would not use. This section really reads like a combination of skill challenges in 4e and skill stunts in exalted. If you like either of those games I am sure that you could find some use for these rules. They do not really fit my particular playstyle.
Chase Rules: This was HUGE section of the book. It seemed very cool, and very complex at a first reading. I definitely plan to spend more time with them to familiarize myself with them. They do seem a little convoluted at first glance. It is a lot of stuff to keep track of for a chase scene. It could certainly be cool, but I am not sure that the effort would be worth the result. But I would definitely say to give them a look. While my play style would probably handle a chase with a couple of rolls using the existing skills, if you are looking for realistic chase scene problem resolve, it looks like they gave the whole idea a really good look with these rules. Check it out.

Temporary Enchantment Spells: Would allow in as is. Variants of weapon buffing spells to allow you to add weapon effects to your weapons for a limited time instead of straight numeric bonuses. (available in arcane and divine flavors)

One million magical items: Would not allow in at all in low to mid level games. A system for magical item generation that generates and items WoW/Diablo style with a prefix ability that does something, a base weapon, and suffix ability. I think it is a really cool chart, but I would not use it in a game that was below 12-14th level as there is no minor/medium/major progression attempt to balance the items for any level range. You can generate sorry items a level 1 character would not want, and on the next roll generate a weapon that god would not mind wielding. Other than that the chart is pretty cool. a neat approach.

New Alchemy items: I really, really enjoyed this section of the book. It is a plethora of new alchemy items (Including information to craft them). Would allow in as is. The items range from mildly useful to silly. But nothing struck me as "OMG that's broken."

Monster Modifier Tables: Very cool DM tool. Will use as is. It basically will randomly alter a monster, give you information on how to mechanically apply the alterations, and then help you adjust the CR of the monster once it has been modified. I did not give a through scouring for unbalanced mods, but nothing jumped out.

Random adventure generation: This is basically just a table. It will generate the thesis of an adventure (like for instance Save Merchant from Drow Warriors). You actually roll up the parts of the statement on the table madlibs style. It seems like a silly tool to me. But I guess it could be a starting point of a DM with writers block.

Fantasy guns: Decent rules for adding firearms to PFRPG. They are not as mechanically optimal as crossbows and bows for higher level characters (unless you spend money on the enchantments to let you attack more than once per round with them), but they are considered simple weapons in the write-up, so it puts them in the hands of most characters right off. I would use as is. (I would maybe reduce the enchantment bonus of enchantment that lets you fire the weapon more than once a round to a +1 bonus instead of +2 however. But I would probably play it as is to start)


Overall: I like the book. It will require a little tweaking if you game with munchkins to keep out the imbalances (I play with munchkins and they are like homing missiles on this stuff. I showed the book to them and they took it apart pretty quick). But nothing in it seems outright broken (with the exception of the priest class IMHO). The flavor is good, but generic enough that you could plug it in anywhere. They art is B&W and kind very cartoonish which can be a good thing or bad thing depending on the viewer (It is a good thing for me). The chapters of the book are broken down so that each variant rule gets its own chapter, giving the book a very modular feel. I Like that. It makes me feel like I can plug and play what I like, and there will be little confusion between my aplayers an me about what exactly is allowed in, as each variant has its own chapter.

I would recommend the book if you just want to check out some new stuff for your PFRPG (or even your 3.x)game, but I would not consider the book to be a must have. But I do think it is worth the asking price.

love,

malkav
 

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My D&D group isn't ready to move from 3.5 yet. I have Tome of Secrets and shared some of the ideas in it with our DM. He's using skillful stunts out of the book. We have a lot of fun coming up with uses in combat for skills that may not normally be used.
 

Priest: I actually found the priest to be slightly broken. With an improved channel (d8's instead of d6's), access to 3 domains, the best spell progression in the game for non-spontaneous casters(maxing out at 5+2 per spell level as opposed to 4+1 of regular clerics and 4 even of wizards), the ability to spontaneously convert spells into domain spells in addition to cures, access to 3 domains instead of 2, and bardic knowledge It just seems a little buku. I am going to let in into my game after modification. I just have not decided how yet.
Correction on the priest: they only have spontaneous casting from a single domain, not all three, and only if they choose to give up their spontaneous casting of cure/inflict spells.
 

I agree mostly to what the above posters have said.

My differences is I think the idea of chases rules are good (I loved the previous .pdf Hot Pursuit), and the morale rules as written are simply horribly difficult to learn and use, and will waste a lot of time around the table if ever used.

Otherwise, the rest is Okayish, not great, not bad, just OK ... but if you are short on money, spend it on anything Paizo instead, and the deal will be better.

Shame, as I hoped for more.
 

Malkav666: All of the Tome of Secrets classes are based on ones from major WotC supplements, and I suspect the races in there are also based on such. Ratkin are similar to Oriental Adventures Ratlings/Nezumi (at least in form and a similar racial trait or two), Half-Ogres are of course based on those of Savage Species and Races of Destiny but toned down, and the Saurians are, I suspect, loosely based on Spellscales or something from Races of the Dragon (I forget the other race in RoD besides kobolds and spellscales).

ToS' artificer is based on the Eberron artificer. Their spellblade is based on a toned-down duskblade from Player's Handbook II. Their knight is based on the knight of Player's Handbook II. Their swashbuckler is based on the swashbuckler from Complete Warrior, but without the use of mental ability scores for combat bonuses. Their priest is based on the cloistered cleric from Unearthed Arcana.

Their warlock is based on the warlock of Complete Arcane. ToS' warlord is based on the marshal of the Miniatures Handbook (previewed on WotC's website as well and reprinted in another WotC book I think), though I suspect its temporary hit point granting is based on the healing abilities of the 4th Edition D&D Warlord, or at best just thematically related to the 3E Bard's Inspire Greatness ability. And their shaman class is loosely based on the shaman of Oriental Adventures and spirit shaman of Complete Divine (maybe even a little based on the shaman in Green Ronin's Shaman's Handbook).

So any similarities are intentional. They sort of Pathfinderized these things, but I don't think they quite managed to get it quite right. They ARE useful and worth playing, I think. Just not on par with core Pathfinder classes, I think (except the Priest, Warlord, and maybe the Swashbuckler; those seem pretty strong like Pathfinder classes). Spellblades seem a tad weak to me, but better than the overpowered duskblades of PHB2. Shamans seem a bit too limited to me, but probably fine otherwise. Knights seem a bit underpowered or limited, like those of the PHB2.

Artificers seem more or less fine, just kinda needing a bit of clarification or tweaking in their Wierd Science ability. It's useable, I'm just not sure if it's quite balanced yet, and that ability confuses me a bit still. Their Warlock is definitely rather limited and probably weak compared to other Pathfinder classes; they can't make use of several Wizard school abilities because they don't cast spells (other than Cantrips), so their selection is terribly limited; the only roles they're suitable for are blaster and enemy-debuffer (to a limited degree), though they can learn a few utility powers as well. The Tome of Secrets races are on par with Pathfinder races I think.

I haven't gone over the other Tome of Secrets material much yet.
 


Yeah, it's good, but ya know ....

I'd buy a Deluxe Tome of Secrets with all the color pics and more ... hmmm... Peps to it ? Ya know like pimping the classes to make them more bad ass or whatever it takes to give it 5 stars ?

(just take away the morale rules :!)
 

Well, if you look, most reviewers gave it 4 or 5 stars -- one guy gave it 1 star, so that dragged the average down.

I have to say, I'm not too interested in "pimping" classes to "make them more bad ass."
 

BTW, GMSkarka, I think Artificers in the Tome of Secrets still need to have a key ability score designated for their Wierd Science invention saving throw DCs and such. And they need clarification on whether a device containing multiple spells counts as multiple inventions or not, and whether or not it costs any gold to build the inventions. So far it seems to be completely free, aside from the investment of a little time.
 

Check the TOME OF SECRETS questions thread on Paizo -- we've answered a bunch of questions in detail (including about the Artificer). I'll try to pop back here with a link (I don't have it handy right now).
 

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