Has D&D jumped the shark?

[Rasyr]

Jumped the Shark - I doubt that it has done that. Trying new things is almost a requirement. If you don't experiment, you can never make the game better.

However, these are examples, I think, of Power Creep. Trying to make the next cool thing even better by upping the inherent power levels. This has a nasty hetrodyning effect because now that they have been introduced, you will start seeing more things like this. Other "nifty" options that make the "specials" more powerful than the baseline. It will only get worse from this point, IMO.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Racial substitution levels were introduced in Races of Stone.

While this sentence is perfectly true, substution levels were first introduced in the Planar Handbook, as planar substitution levels.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

The resurgence of d&d with 3rd edition tells me that the shark has not been jumped. There is even a quiet build up towards 4th ed. but there is plenty of space before that horizon.

As for supplements & power-creep, I just say no & use core rules only with special exemptions for one off characters or great mechanics (Mobs/possession ).

 

[diaglo]

[diaglo]D&D jumped the shark with Supplement I: Greyhawk[/diaglo]

ditto.

mang, give a guy a chance to wake up.

 

[Klaus]

I like Racial Substitution Levels, and I see them taking the place of "Favored Class". So far each race gets a RSL for 3 classes: its favored class, a class that is strongly associated with and a class that is totally non-min-maxing (warforged paladin, for instance). I really like that.

Mindset spells, otoh, I could do without.

 

[DaveMage]

ditto.

mang, give a guy a chance to wake up.

Those crazy Aussies with their weird time zones...


I seem to remember a thread with this exact same title about a year ago....

I think D&D is fine, and I'm quite happy with the products that are coming out from WotC now and in the future.

It's a great time to play D&D.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

- Mindset spells: These are spells that give characters special boni to skill checks and other things as long as they have prepared them, but not cast them.

Ok, first comment, they obviously need to do a better job of keeping the Magic the Gathering designers out of the Dungeons and Dragons design area.

That being said, as long as the spells in question are a little less powerful than they might otherwise be-- say, 1/2 a level-- I actually think this is kind of a cool idea.

But it really is the gateway to a whoooooooooooole lot more influence from MtG, and it's not as if spellcasters really need to dominate the game any more than they already do.

Technically, it's not that different from some of my favorite spells from Monte's Book of Eldritch Might I, the various Mark of Energy spells: They grant you a +2 bonus to an attribute for 1 hour/level, but you can dismiss them at any time to create another, related effect (such as dismissing your Mark of Fire, which gives you +2 Dex, to shoot a ray of fire for 3d6 damage). I love those spells!

Hmm, in retrospect I think that's a better implementation than the Mindset spells...

 

[Psion]

- Racial Substitution Levels: I always liked about the core classes that they were relatively generic. That you now effectively have "variant racial core classes" rubs me in a very wrong way. Could we please limit the "special powers" to feats or prestige classes?

Johny come lately are we? Substitution level have been appearing in several products.

Personally, I like them. The DMG expresses the idea that classes can be tweaked, but provides no method for doing so. That bothers me. I like that they have finally done something to formalize this process, allow making classes more flexible (as they should be), and in doing so, help defray the need for all-new classes.

- Mindset spells: These are spells that give characters special boni to skill checks and other things as long as they have prepared them, but not cast them.

Now that bugs me. That is the sort of gimmicky thing that sounds like what WotC started doing when they were looking for new gimmicks for MtG.

 

[Illvillainy]

I appreciate both myself; though both, mindset spells in particular, need to be developed in order to maintain balance.

 

[Psion]

Ok, first comment, they obviously need to do a better job of keeping the Magic the Gathering designers out of the Dungeons and Dragons design area.

That's what I was thinking.