Has D&D jumped the shark?

[Ralif Redhammer]

I'll say that D&D has jumped the shark! But it's had the unique position of jumping the shark a couple of times.

Not sure if it did in 1e. I don't recall a time when I was disillusioned with it, but then again this is all very subjective. In 2e when they re-released the books and started the whole player's option books. In 3e, when 3.5 was released. Whether or not the changes were for the better, I've not been as happy with the products since. I've passed on almost all of the major releases.

I think D&D has managed to hit the reset button a couple of times. But the last two editions have degraded over time. I imagine a similar trend will occur with 4e, whenever that comes out.

 

[ZeroGlobal2003]

Mindset spells are, on the whole, a book-keeping troublemaker. As others have mentioned I prefer Monte's Mark spells to this approach. But I don't criticise them for trying out the idea. If they aren't well received I expect them to fall into disuse, which is a perfectly fine developmental approach.

Why do you think they are more complicated? The Mark spells have durations in hours, which means across an adventuring day you have to keep track of when the spells expire, if they are dispeled and what not. With Mind Set you just memorize them and they are there until cast. No duration book keeping, not worrying about if the spell is still there or not. Simple.

Zero

 

[Quasqueton]

A fiendish, half-dragon, legendary dire shark. Or an umbral, half-fiend, vampire, shark of legend. Or a gelatinous, anarchic, half-elemental, were-shark.

I don't hold core D&D (3 core books) accountable or responsible for supplimental/optional material.

Quasqueton

 

[Dagger75]

Whats the DC for jumping a shark?

Is it sad that we can actually figure that out

 

[diaglo]

Why do you think they are more complicated? The Mark spells have durations in hours, which means across an adventuring day you have to keep track of when the spells expire, if they are dispeled and what not. With Mind Set you just memorize them and they are there until cast. No duration book keeping, not worrying about if the spell is still there or not. Simple.

Zero

well if you think keeping track of spell expiration equates to a bother.
then i guess you'd agree keeping track of what spells you lose when you get a negative energy level. or when you lose int/cha/wis due to poison or other ability drain or...

you can make many other side arguments. but the point ... if it is a bother to him, but not you... does it change the fact it is a bother to him?

 

[diaglo]

A fiendish, half-dragon, legendary dire shark. Or an umbral, half-fiend, vampire, shark of legend. Or a gelatinous, anarchic, half-elemental, were-shark.

I don't hold core D&D (3 core books) accountable or responsible for supplimental/optional material.

Quasqueton

fiendish, half-dragon, dire, celestial, were-, vampire, ghost... are in the core books. the MM is a core book, right?

 

[francisca]

Ok, first comment, they obviously need to do a better job of keeping the Magic the Gathering designers out of the Dungeons and Dragons design area.

Yup. Totally.

Both great games, but in terms of how rules are handled, they aren't peanut butter and chocolate, if you take my meaning.

 

[Deadguy]

Mindset spells are, on the whole, a book-keeping troublemaker. As others have mentioned I prefer Monte's Mark spells to this approach. But I don't criticise them for trying out the idea. If they aren't well received I expect them to fall into disuse, which is a perfectly fine developmental approach.

Why do you think they are more complicated? The Mark spells have durations in hours, which means across an adventuring day you have to keep track of when the spells expire, if they are dispeled and what not. With Mind Set you just memorize them and they are there until cast. No duration book keeping, not worrying about if the spell is still there or not. Simple.

Zero

I think, Zero, that it's just that already we have to keep track of cast spells, so it doesn't seem any different than normal - just a note on scratch paper that such-and-such expires at approx X p.m. I know that the same effect could be achieved with a Mindset spell, with a note to remove the bonus if it's cast. But that last step differs from the norm, it feels a little more cumbersome. Clearly YMDV.

 

[Quasqueton]

fiendish, half-dragon, dire, celestial, were-, vampire, ghost... are in the core books. the MM is a core book, right?

Yep. So?

Quasqueton

 

[The_Fan]

More precisely, "Jumping the shark" is not when the show begins to decline, but when the decline becomes utterly irreversible. For instance, with Buffy the Vampire Slayer, it began its decline when she graduated from high school. It jumped the shark when it shifted to UPN. Angel began its decline when Wolfram and Hart got destroyed. It jumped the shark when...wait, they cancelled it. Probably a good move.

HAs D&D jumped the shark? Does so at least once an edition. Many people cite "Complete Book of Elves" as 2e's jump. It's possible that the "komedy" of Castle Greyhawk was 1e's jump. 3e has had several development team changes, resulting in several possible jumps.

Unlike previous editions, Wizards has the foresight to notice a decline and take radical steps to reverse it. For example, The Planar Handbook I cite as the jump for the "races, feats, prcs, weapons, magic items, spells, and monsters" format. Despite the introduction of several new and interesting concepts (touchstones and substitution levels), there was just this feeling of sameness about it. After that is when they started experimenting with more fluff text, which is a very welcome addition. I have a feeling that when ALL the new fluffy formats are used in a single book, the overload might cause the pendulum to swing back.