Has Lovecraft become required reading?

In fact, I think it would be great if there were greater diversity of taste in D&D in general. I think all too often there's too much of a tendency to tread very closely in the footsteps of what came before; a kind of nearly moribund recreation of the same thing over and over again.

It would seem to me that broadening the tastes represented in D&D would be supported by broadening the reading palates of the GMs and players.

If we are in danger of treading too closely to what came before, it is those things that have come recently before. Most of us have read Dragonlance, we know FR, and Greyhawk - and by in large, I suspect most campaigns mirror, for example, the mortal-deity relationship structure seen in those books.

How many have actually read the original Lovecraftian horror? How many have even read a contemporary author's takes on it (like King's "From a Buick 8", or "The Mist")? How many of us are actually working only off of partial references handed down in games, never having bothered to see the original?

If you want broadened tastes, then support broadened exposure, and reading in genres that the players haven't likely had before.
 

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It would seem to me that broadening the tastes represented in D&D would be supported by broadening the reading palates of the GMs and players.
Yes. That's exactly my point. Instead of pointing everyone to the same iconic writers all the time, and telling them that they should be steeped in Lovecraft, Howard, Leiber, Moorcock and Tolkien in order to play, we should be more accepting of unusual influences. Of overtly Star Wars or Final Fantasy or whatever influenced games, to use one example. I'm as guilty of it as anyone.
Umbran said:
If we are in danger of treading too closely to what came before, it is those things that have come recently before. Most of us have read Dragonlance, we know FR, and Greyhawk - and by in large, I suspect most campaigns mirror, for example, the mortal-deity relationship structure seen in those books.
That's not my experience.
Umbran said:
How many have actually read the original Lovecraftian horror?
In my experience, almost every gamer I've ever gamed with, with only a few notable exceptions.
Umbran said:
If you want broadened tastes, then support broadened exposure, and reading in genres that the players haven't likely had before.
Yes, quite.
 



I personally like Lovecraft because his version of horror is the horror of materialism (the philosophical system, not the synonym with consumerism). If some form of materialism is correct, then in some sense the horror of Lovecraft is true. Humanity is so unspecial in the eyes of the universe that it doesn't even care enough to care about us one way or the other.
While I don't find Lovecraft particularly horrifying (not being a materialiast myself), I enjoy his prose and style.
I'm with those who find Lovecraft to be, on the whole, heavy going as an author. I also think he's dated, precisely because he seems to think that philosophical materialism has horror-laden implications. For those who enjoy slighltly overblown prose, Bertrand Russell set out to reject this contention in his "A Free Man's Worship", written in 1902 and published in 1903. Weber makes a similar argument - although more measured and less optimistic - in "Science as a Vocation", delivered as a lecture in 1918 and published in 1919.

The Wikipedia entry on Lovecraft describes his work as 'challenging the values of the Enlightenment". But mere denial - or to put it another way, mere assertion that the universe, in its vastness, is unknowable, and that I am an irrelevant speck in the overall scheme of things - isn't particularly dread-inducing, any more than mere assertion that Jesus will save me is comforting. Just as religious faith tends to draw upon some sort of religious experience, so the horror of materialism depends upon some sort of experience.

This sort of experience can, in my view, be produced by writing. Although I come from a Catholic family I am not a practising Catholic. Nevertheless, I can feel very strongly the force of Graham Greene's description of a character's encounter with the person of Christ in his novel "The End of the Affair" (in my view a triumph of Catholic Existentialism). It evokes something in the neighbourhood of a religious experience. It seems to me that Lovecraft's work is intended, by him, to produce an experience of materialist dread - but the weaknesses of his prose style prevent it from doing so. (I also think that the personification of supposedly indifferent universal forces works against Lovecraft's point also - central to the materialist contention is that any such personification of mechanical phenomena is a category error.)

Due to the need to read a lot of non-fiction for my job (plus a lot of RPG texts for my hobby!) I don't get time to read a lot of fiction. But one book I've read fairly recently that evoked something like a feeling of dread - that there is a larger universe out there which is indifferent to the protagonist (and hence, by the operation of sympathy, to me) - is Haruki Murakami's "The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle". It's not particularly a horror story, and it's not cosmic horror at all. But it more successfully evoked a "Lovecraftian" emotion in me than Lovecraft ever has.
 

The "D&D subgenre" (for lack of a better label) has long been much bigger than the Three Musketeers of Weird Tales writing, and I don't think there's necessarily any benefit from steeping yourself in a Weird Tales diet unless you just happen to like that and happen to want to.

Part of it has to do with which version of the game you are playing. Being familiar with the tropes of the Weird Tales writers and those that followed them (Moorcock, Carter) does, quite frankly, make D&D (particularly OD&D, B/X D&D and AD&D) make a lot more sense. But i think it is still valuable to understanding the foundation on which the newer, more anime and video game inspired (I don't mean that in a bad way; I *like* anime and video games) D&D got the tropes it still holds on to.

Also, I didn't say 9nor do i believe) that solely a diet of classic S&S writers would suffice, merely that when looking at the sword and sorcery genre, it is better to examine the original works than the pastiches.
 

In my experience, almost every gamer I've ever gamed with, with only a few notable exceptions.

Hobo, come on. Personal anecdotes as support for broad policy?

A million and more gamers, right? Your personal small sample size? Self-selection on people you've gamed with? Do I have to break out the full argument, or is the outline enough?
 

REH has some excellent "Lovecraftian" stories, which are well worth reading.....although he is also dated in some ways (esp. as regards to racial and gender politics).

I think that the best things about the pulps/Weird Tales authors are (1) the enormous energy in some of their stories and (2) the commonality (for RPGers) of the sorts of situations one encounters in D&D (and similar games). Both of these factors are worthwhile for prospective GMs to explore, IMHO. This is even true in cases where the prose isn't as good as one would like.

There is nothing wrong with reading modern authors as well....One draws inspiration from many sources. I personally enjoy discovering sources in older materials for later materials I have read. I personally enjoy discovering the echoes of older materials in newer materials as I am reading them. This joy in discovery mandates reading older materials.

I also think that, for those who have read these authors, some "no win scenarios" seem far more winnable -- we have already read how Conan, or Solomon Kane, or El Borak, or Kyrik, or Tarzan, or John Carter triumphed in a similar plight.

Finally, regarding Lovecraft, may I present the following article, which I wrote in relation to the Dreaming Seas Press version of "That Hideous Face", published in Mythos Collector #6? Here's a link: http://www.danieljbishop.ca/That hideous face.pdf


RC
 

(2) the commonality (for RPGers) of the sorts of situations one encounters in D&D (and similar games).

Although Lin Carter has a lot of pastiche work, among his original works is The Black Star which I found recently and just started reading. The first third of the novel at least reads like a D&D adventure, complete with Troglodytes (though the Trogs in this case are more of a goblin/morlock hybrid). It's from 1973.
 

Guess it depends on exactly what kind of game you want to run.

In general, I'd say it's about as necessary as watching Tron before playing in a hacker/decker/net-running centric Cyberpunk game; it might give some interesting background on the genre - but the same basic ideas/tropes have been presented in a more engaging manner by others.

I'm not a fan of Lovecraft's writing style myself (YMMV), so I found mightygodking's remark on him amusing.

H.P. LOVECRAFT
Not Nerdy: Recognizing the name “Cthulhu”
Slightly Nerdy: Knowing the proper pronunciation of “Cthulhu” (EDIT: k’too-loo, for those wondering)
Fairly Nerdy: Owning a Cthulhu plushie
Nerdy: Running a Call of Cthulhu campaign
Really Nerdy: Organizing a chapter of the Campus Crusade For Cthulhu
Dangerously Nerdy: Actually reading any of Lovecraft’s stories
 
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