Has Monte Cook made 4th ed Unnecessary?

[Harkun]

To any of you who have gotten to see Monte Cooks book of expermental might, I ask you; is 4th ed even nessessary at this point. For the cost of 9 bucks, you can incorperate most of the talked about 4th edition elements into your 3.5 campaign right now and you don't have to change your whole campaign.

At this point I think WOTC might be trying to ignore the 800 pound gorillia but the fact is that 3.5 is still covered with the OGL and they have already said they can't change that. 4th will be different in that there will be restrictions in what can and can not be published under the new 4th ed GSL.

So what I'm asking is will the community support this or will they take something like Monte's book and incorperate them into a sort of 3.75 that will still exist as a free and open source game?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

To any of you who have gotten to see Monte Cooks book of expermental might, I ask you; is 4th ed even nessessary at this point. For the cost of 9 bucks, you can incorperate most of the talked about 4th edition elements into your 3.5 campaign right now and you don't have to change your whole campaign.

At this point I think WOTC might be trying to ignore the 800 pound gorillia but the fact is that 3.5 is still covered with the OGL and they have already said they can't change that. 4th will be different in that there will be restrictions in what can and can not be published under the new 4th ed GSL.

So what I'm asking is will the community support this or will they take something like Monte's book and incorperate them into a sort of 3.75 that will still exist as a free and open source game?

In short: No.

Longer: No. He doesn't change the general problems of the 3.x "math" - the sweet spot is not affected by his modifications. I suspect that the game balance changes notably.
Tthe healing rules will probably help the party as a whole a lot, the spellcaster options make them probably a little stronger then they already are.

 

[WayneLigon]

I thought he'd have made 3.5 unnessasary with Arcana Unearthed, but that didn't happen. I'll have to check out his new book sometime soon.

 

[Another Gnome]

I'm more curious to know if 4E will make Monte Cook unnecessary.

 

[Mentat55]

I am a big Arcane Evolved fan, a big fan of several of Monte's D&D supplements, and I own and am looking into incorporating some of BOXM into my own games.

DISCLAIMER: I have only read BOXM. I have not tried any of the rules. So my opinions are purely based on a read of the rules, and not any in-game trial.

However, the biggest thing that jumps out at me about BOXM is that fighters are totally screwed by the rules (primarily, giving every PC a feat every level) and to a lesser extent, so are the barbarians and rogues (since the disciplines given to the wizard, cleric, druid, ranger, and paladin, which can be taken in lieu of a feat, seem to be more powerful, on paper). 4E, on the other hand, is giving all classes access to powers. These two approaches, to me, appear almost diametrically opposed.

Furthermore, as Mustrum_Ridcully said, the rules don't alter the underlying math of 3.5E, which is THE major change in 4E.

BOXM does try to address things like the 15 minute adventuring day, clerics having to expend large percentages of their magical power on healing, and save or die effects (but this was already a feature of AU/AE, so not a new thing for Monte).

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I think there are too many possible versions of how 3.5 could be modified for any single one of them to work out. If I continue with a version of 3.5 after my current campaign ends, I'm likely to do some pretty extreme houseruling of my own. The only folks who could make a viable go of a 3.75 are Paizo, and I think that they are ultimately going to go 4E. Monte could have done it too, but he's not doing game stuff much any more.

So in the end, no, I don't think Monte has made 4E unnecessay, except to a vey small audience.

 

[Carnivorous_Bean]

I also doubt that he has 500 monsters in that PDF.

 

[hexgrid]

Monte says no:

It's not, as some people have said, my "3.75 edition." And here's why: If you're going to do a whole revision to a game you approach it very differently than you do with a supplement. A supplement institutes changes and additions but changes only what is absolutely necessary for the additions to work. With a new edition or a revision, all bets are off, and everything's fair game. The game is a mass of interconnected pieces. When you change one, you have to be aware of how that affects all the others. With a supplement, you want the impact (the "footprint," if you will) to be absolutely no bigger than it needs to be. With a revision or edition, it doesn't matter how much you change (to a point), you just need to be aware of all the ramifications.

 

[Jack99]

The only folks who could make a viable go of a 3.75 are Paizo, and I think that they are ultimately going to go 4E.

I would like to know what rules-products Paizo has made that makes you believe so much in them? Please bear in mind that I am a huge fan of their adventures, and subscribe both to their Pathfinder and GameMastery modules. So yes, the same thought has occurred to me, but I find myself not able to muster that kind of trust when it comes to game balance and rules. Making a great game is after all very different from using rules to create great adventures. Or what?

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I would like to know what rules-products Paizo has made that makes you believe so much in them? Please bear in mind that I am a huge fan of their adventures, and subscribe both to their Pathfinder and GameMastery modules. So yes, the same thought has occurred to me, but I find myself not able to muster that kind of trust when it comes to game balance and rules. Making a great game is after all very different from using rules to create great adventures. Or what?

Very true. Its not their rule development skills that tells me they could do it - it's just that I don't think anyone else could pul it off even if they had impeccable skills. I'm talking about this more from a "market penetration" point of view than pure design. I wouldn't be surprised if 5-10 versions of a 3.75 eventually get made. They'll all be tiny, tiny fractions of the gaming world - although they may well sustain small companies. Only Paizo has the name recognition and market power to create a 3.75 that could break out of the tiny, PDF-based market.