Has Monte Cook made 4th ed Unnecessary?

[Michael Morris]

I'm more curious to know if 4E will make Monte Cook unnecessary.

This quip is very, very close to a direct insult in my opinion. It's uncalled for in any event.

 

[glass]

No, that fact that RPGs are luxury items makes 4e unnecessary. However, the fact that I have BoXM doesn't make 4e unwanted by me.


glass.

 

[Psion]

Monte says no:

Monte says no to a different question.

Monte says that what he does isn't a "new edition".

But to the question of the OP, is a new edition necessary? Can people's concerns with the current edition be successfully addressed with a supplement that does not require a ground up reworking of the system?

I rather think for the needs of many of us, the answers are "no" and "yes", respectively.

As for whether that makes 4e unnecessary... I'll have to get his book before I decide.

Regardless of what my view of the necessity of 4e is, either way, it was probably necessary for Wizards to maintain RPG sales.

 

[Harkun]

Very true. Its not their rule development skills that tells me they could do it - it's just that I don't think anyone else could pul it off even if they had impeccable skills. I'm talking about this more from a "market penetration" point of view than pure design. I wouldn't be surprised if 5-10 versions of a 3.75 eventually get made. They'll all be tiny, tiny fractions of the gaming world - although they may well sustain small companies. Only Paizo has the name recognition and market power to create a 3.75 that could break out of the tiny, PDF-based market.

Oh I don't think that is the case at all. As for who COULD do it, I think you have several options. Not only could Monte and Malhovoc Press handle a serious alt to 4th ed (after all he offered a serious alt to 3rd and 3.5 that became very popular), you also have companies like Green Ronin and to a lesser extent Mongoose. Green Ronin in fact already has a alternate system called True 20 which solves many if not most of the 3rd/3.5 issues. Not to mention their success with Mutants and Masterminds they could do it as well.

The question is WOULD any of these companies do it and actually I'm just not sure, and no matter how good the system was, I just don't know if it would reach the level of 4th ed usage. The reason why I brought up the question is because of the special scenario that I see developing. The problem is (1) that the genie that is the OGL is already out of the bottle and (2) people don't like to spend money and buy new books especially when they can get stuff for free or cheaper.

As good as the ideas are that 4th ed is bringing to us they are not unique to the gaming industry. Mongoose Publishing has already published their own Players handbook (the pocket guide) which they sell for 20 bucks (10 now I think) which is just a publishing of the SRD essentially. The OGL allows you to edit the SRD and add things to make your own game, there is nothing stopping anyone from simply adding some of the 4th ed elements (similar to say what monte has done, which is OGL by the way) and reissuing that as a Players Handbook. Essentially you would have a system virtually the same as 4th but made from a modified 3.5 SRD and you could publish it under the OGL. So you are calling healing surges something else....like "second breath." The name can be different and the mechanics slightly so but if it gets you to the same place what is the difference?

 

[mhensley]

I'm more curious to know if 4E will make Monte Cook unnecessary.

this one

 

[DaveMage]

Has Monte made 4E unnecessary?

No, WotC did by making 3.x.

 

[Cyronax]

This quip is very, very close to a direct insult in my opinion. It's uncalled for in any event.

I don't think its an insult. Its a fair argument, despite the curt presentation.

 

[Asmor]

I don't think its an insult. Its a fair argument, despite the curt presentation.

I didn't see it as an insult. I saw it as a question of whether 4th edition would obviate the need, or perhaps market, for people who tinker with rules and present alternate versions.

And the obvious answer to that question is no, no it will not, because 4th edition may well be perfect for some but it's impossible for it to be perfect for everyone.

 

[kennew142]

I'm more curious to know if 4E will make Monte Cook unnecessary.

This quip is very, very close to a direct insult in my opinion. It's uncalled for in any event.

I can see how someone could take the comment as an insult (and I have no insight at all into the mind of the poster), but that isn't how I read it. I took it to mean that 3e required (in the opinion of many) a lot of tweaking to make it work. Monte Cook was one of those designers always jumping in with something interesting that made the system work a little better (IMO). The question is whether 4e will be good enough from the first as to make such tweaks unnecessary.

I imagine most of us will be creating house rules to make the RAW better reflect the flavor of the setting, but that's not the same thing as rewriting/redesigning the system for better (or at least different) utility.

 

[Dausuul]

Monte says no to a different question.

Monte says that what he does isn't a "new edition".

But to the question of the OP, is a new edition necessary? Can people's concerns with the current edition be successfully addressed with a supplement that does not require a ground up reworking of the system?

Well, for me, the answer is "yes," since changes sufficient to address my issues with 3E would amount to a new edition even if the designer didn't call it that; and "no."