Has Monte Cook made 4th ed Unnecessary?

[sukael]

I am a big Arcane Evolved fan, a big fan of several of Monte's D&D supplements, and I own and am looking into incorporating some of BOXM into my own games.

DISCLAIMER: I have only read BOXM. I have not tried any of the rules. So my opinions are purely based on a read of the rules, and not any in-game trial.

However, the biggest thing that jumps out at me about BOXM is that fighters are totally screwed by the rules (primarily, giving every PC a feat every level) and to a lesser extent, so are the barbarians and rogues (since the disciplines given to the wizard, cleric, druid, ranger, and paladin, which can be taken in lieu of a feat, seem to be more powerful, on paper). 4E, on the other hand, is giving all classes access to powers. These two approaches, to me, appear almost diametrically opposed.

Furthermore, as Mustrum_Ridcully said, the rules don't alter the underlying math of 3.5E, which is THE major change in 4E.

BOXM does try to address things like the 15 minute adventuring day, clerics having to expend large percentages of their magical power on healing, and save or die effects (but this was already a feature of AU/AE, so not a new thing for Monte).

I pretty much agree with all of this.

 

[Stalker0]

Well, there's also the point that what edition of D&D is NECESSARY?

This is actually a good question. We all know that WOTC makes most of its dnd money off of the core books. While that's not the only way to go, apparently its been more profitable than doing adventurers and things of that nature.

They need to continue to make money, so they need to sell more books. Supplements often sell well, but also have the problem of increasing rules bloat. There comes a tipping point when either you continue to push the system with supplements or try to push for a new set of core books.

In other words 4e.

Now people will scream that that's a bad thing, but its not. Competition breeds excellence. The designers at WOTC know they have to make a good system to compete with their already good one. And let's face it, we gamers are downright demanding. We pay a paltry fee for our hobby (and yes, $200 every few months are so is paltry compared to many hobbies, try model airplanes, or Warhammer 40K) and we absolutely demand perfection.

Hopefully 4e will bring us some of that perfection.

But the question I quoted in the beginning is a very important point. For dnd (as an organized company and not just a bunch of scattered people playing) to survive, new editions are required every so often. In that respect, each new edition is necessary for the good of all.

 

[ElminstersApprentice]

Iron Heroes which Mike Mearls put out through Monte Cook's Malhavoc Press had a considerable influence on 4E.

If you were at DDXP, you might have had a chance to play Mike Mearl's 4E preview adventure, Scalegloom Hall. I ran it, and I can see a lot of game design principles from both RPGs and MMOs. And there are other completely new innovations.

4E doesn't invalidate 3.5 which is still a great gaming system. But 4E is a LOT of fun to both play and run.

My guess is that Malhovoc Press will buy the $5000 license and produce some 4E materials, maybe even taking Arcana Unearthed to 4E.

Monte Cook can do whatever he wants. He's a smart guy. If there's a niche for 3.5/3.75, he will probably cater to it, and if 4E pays the bills he can go there. Not to mention he's good friends with a whole mess of WotC R&D guys, so he's probably contributed to the game just by discussing mechanics with guys like Mike Mearls.

On the other hand I don't think WotC's survival depends on Monte Cook. Malhavoc does not have the marketing power to sway the market, and even if it did why would Monte Cook stand in the way of growth and change? I'm sure he's sad to see his 3rd edition move out of the spotlight, but also I'm sure he loves the game of D&D more than *his* edition.

 

[Brix]

In short: Yes, he did

 

[Glyfair]

My guess is that Malhovoc Press will buy the $5000 license and produce some 4E materials, maybe even taking Arcana Unearthed to 4E..

I doubt it. Monte has said several times he is out of the rpg business for now. The only reason this book made an appearance is because he happened to discuss the house rules of his new campaign and people cried for him to make them available.

While it's not inconceivable that he will change his mind, I think it's very unlikely to happen any time soon.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I doubt it. Monte has said several times he is out of the rpg business for now. The only reason this book made an appearance is because he happened to discuss the house rules of his new campaign and people cried for him to make them available.

While it's not inconceivable that he will change his mind, I think it's very unlikely to happen any time soon.

He certainly won't be in time to need the 5000 $ for using the GSL.

And I am eager to see his first published novel (or did he already had one published before D&D?) in the mean time.

 

[Glyfair]

And I am eager to see his first published novel (or did he already had one published before D&D?) in the mean time.

He has a couple of D&D novels ("Of Aged Angels," "The Glass Prison")

 

[Firevalkyrie]

If anything, BoXM shows in high detail why 4E is necessary - the fundamental math of 3.x - to a lesser extent, granted, than previous editions - breaks down when you push it too hard or too far.

 

[Steely Dan]

At this point I think WOTC might be trying to ignore the 800 pound gorillia

Yeah, that is the problem, what with incorporating elements from Saga, ToB and the new DDM rules, our 3.5 (3.75?) has really become a Frankenstein's monster at this point.

Though I don't think I could sit through, well, certainly not DM, a straight 3.5 session.

So I like my group's current Franky's monster, but I am looking forward to having a nice High-D&D-colonic, come June.

 

[vagabundo]

Yeah, that is the problem, what with incorporating elements from Saga, ToB and the new DDM rules, our 3.5 (3.75?) has really become a Frankenstein's monster at this point.

Though I don't think I could sit through, well, certainly not DM, a straight 3.5 session.

So I like my group's current Franky's monster, but I am looking forward to having a nice High-D&D-colonic, come June.

I though you were a doubter, <sigh> so hard to keep track these days ...

I run straight DND 3.5e, but more and more rules have fallen away from the game over time and my players dont seem to notice.

SR whats that?? 1-2-1 wha? Turn undead, forgedaboutit!

I'll be happy to go street legal again once 4e comes..