Has the age of the big book arrived?

[MonsterMash]

I've got to admit I like 128 and 256 page books, but if they can't get distribution will accept that the publishers have to go large. Actually looking at the books I've bought there are plenty of big uns there: City State of the Invincible Overlord, Frost & Fur, Tome of Horrors II, Conan RPG and they're all good.

 

[Psion]

Highly recommended at that price. It's a very attractive book. I was surprised to see the reference to the Star Wars RPG, though -- I had thought the cleanest approach would have been to scrap the Star Wars reference and use the V/WP system from Unearthed Arcana.

Color me surprised too. I didn't check the disclaimer section, but the OGC statement was the friendly "everything but graphics and proper names" sort of thing. I assumed they had gone that route.

 

[philreed]

Color me surprised too. I didn't check the disclaimer section, but the OGC statement was the friendly "everything but graphics and proper names" sort of thing. I assumed they had gone that route.

Yep, a very generous OGC designation. It's gonna take me weeks to digest this material but I expect I'll come up with some ideas on how to incorporate their OGC into new products.

And for me, getting back to the subject at hand, this book is too big. It's uncomfortable for me to hold and read.

 

[Odhanan]

Honestly, I'll pitch in to say that the reason I never bought into Hero5 was... 592 pages...

I'd say there's a difference for me, as a customer, between getting a huge rulebook and a huge sourcebook. A question of flow and ease at reading the later, I guess. Reading mammoth rulebooks can become quite annoying/uninspiring.

 

[Barak]

It really, really depend on what it is, for me.

If it's a "setting book", so when compared to D&D, includes PH, DMG and some monsters (no setting book I've ever seen has as many monsters as a MM), I don't like it, really. Either you have only one book for the group, which makes it a pain to make characters, and to run the game if you need info from the book (for monster stats, for example) at the same time as one (or more!) player needs info on a spell. Or you have your players buy a couple (or one each), which means they spend money for information they don't need, and that, frankly, I'd prefer they don't -have-.

If it's a "source book", then it really depends on what it's a source -for-. Only if it's for something that will see -lots- of use in the campaign will it be a good investment. In comparaison, a smaller (and cheaper) book on a same subject would probably be a good investment even if the subject only see moderate use.

If it's an "adventure/module", IE WLD, then it's good. I bought the WLD, and I'm really pleased with my investment (granted, I got it for 40$ at Amazon. Prolly wouldn't have bought it at the list price, since I couldn't be -sure- it'd turn out as great for my own need as it has). To me, it's better than getting a bunch of separate modules, since those, even if part of a "serie", will leave me too much work to do to "link" them, for my own tastes. After all, I bought the stuff 'cause I -hate- prep work (not the reading part, but the writing up stuff part), and have lil time for it.

So, really, it depends.

 

[buzz]

Honestly, I'll pitch in to say that the reason I never bought into Hero5 was... 592 pages...

D&D 3.5 is 960pp for the core ruleset.
GURPS is 576pp for the core ruleset.
Vampire:tR is 518pp for the core ruelset (WoD + V:tR).

What's the big difference?

(And, to pimp HERO, at least all you'll ever really need is that 592pp rulebook. HERO isn't supplement-reliant, like most other RPGs. Secondary pimp: you can get the 128-page Sidekick [i.e., HERO Basic] for $10.)

Seriously, why is a single 500+ page book daunting, but D&D books and supplements two feet thick on your gaming shelf not? I've never understood this.

Personally, I don't care how big a book is, as long as it's good and the binding is sound. "Good" is far more important to me than length or price.

 

[Barak]

Well, as I said, the problem is with bundling together stuff, so you can't pick and choose. I'll use D&D for the example.

You're just a player, and do not DM? You just buy the PH. Why should you have to pay extra to get stuff you don't need?

You don't want/like "well-known" monsters as a DM? Don't buy the MM, and buy a different book of monsters, like the MM2, or if you have a lot of time, make your own.

The problem with "big book campaign setting" is you can easily end up paying for stuff you don't want/need/can use.

 

[Sado]

When was the last time you saw a hardcover come in with a list price of under $20? The only ones that come close in my recent memory are the original 3.0 core rulebooks at $20 each. That was $60 to play a game five years ago with material spread over 3 books vs. $50 for say, Conan or $40 for Spycraft 2.0 (list prices again) which are complete games in a single book.

I would much rather have a single, self-contained book for a game where the supplements are truly optional rules and material. I've played far too many games where I had to wait an additional 6-18 months for additional books to come out and fill in gaping holes such as magic, monsters, etc.

Azgulor

Castles and Crusades
All Flesh Must Be Eaten (a little over $20)
D6 Adventure, Fantasy, and Space (also a little over $20 each)
HARP

EDIT-Actually, I know HARP has a hardbound edition, but I'm not sure this is it, so we'll cross that off the list for now.

Just to name a few. Actually the last two I bought were C&C and AFMBE. It's not the majority, but there are hardbacks out there for $20 or so.

There are also several games I'm kind of interested in, but because they are alittle more expensive I haven't gotten around to buying them. Grim Tales, Conan, and Riddle of Steel, to name a few (although Grim Tales is right at my comfort zone cut-off point, and will probably be my next purchase).

 

[Justin D. Jacobson]

A little late to the thread, but I'll chime in. Dawning Star: Operation Quick Launch was but 208 pages hardcover. To me, that's a great size for that type of book. When it came to Helios Rising (the guide to the Helios system), it quickly became clear that the plan of sticking around 208 pages was never going to happen. So, we had some design decisions to make. We considered releasing it in two volumes by location, but it seemed rather asinine to present one-half of a star system in each book--particularly when they might reference sections in the other book. We considered breaking it down into two volumes by pure setting material and new crunchiness. Again, I was worried about awkward cross-references. E.g., how do I do a write-up of the saurian emperor without giving him a statblock, or how do I include a statblock while putting the crunch that comprises it in a different book. In the end, we decided to keep it as one big book. So, long-winded answer done, Helios will probably be 350 pages or so when it's all done, and the reason is because it made the most sense. I'm not happy about it from a budgetary standpoint. On that issue, Chris is right: It would make more fiscal sense to release as a couple of small books. But, in the end, I have to do right by the customer. (Ultimately, doing right by the customer makes the most sense.)

 

[Kanegrundar]

(Ultimately, doing right by the customer makes the most sense.)

I for one thank you. I just wish that all publishers felt the same way. However, those that I support do (Malhavoc, GR, Ronin Arts, Blue Devil, Morrigan, and a handful of others).

Kane