D&D 5E Hasbro CEO Chris Cocks Would Like To Explore Kara-Tur

According to Reddit poster bwrusso, who was in a small group investor meeting with Hasbro CEO Chris Cocks last week, Hasbro's CEO (who was previously President of Wizards of the Coast before being promoted to his current position) currently plays in a Kara-Tur campaign and would personally like to see that setting explored further.

Kara-Tur is part of the Forgotten Realms, and is inspired by real-world East and Southeast Asia cultures, including China, Japan, Mongolia, and other regions. It was originally published in the 1985 book Oriental Adventures, and has since appeared in other formats including a boxed set in 1988. Eight adventure modules for the setting were published in the late 80s. In 2015's Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, Kara-Tur is briefly described.

Cocks also touched on Spanish-language translations of D&D books in Latin America, and indicated that there were distribution issues with former licensing agreements in that region.

 

[tetrasodium]

And maybe get rid of stuff like Tabot = Tibet.

I accidentally hit post on that while typing because a new post shifted the submit button under my thumb, but I wanted to go into some specifics about the good stuff I'd love to see

This thread kinda exploded fast, but I think that there is some noteworthy things that a well done karatura setting could really add to d&d that existing settings don't. With wotc doing a Japanese version of d&d it seems reasonable to have a setting in the Japanese version of generic nonspecific medieval fantasy.

While the original 80s setting was pretty far into Asian versions of wooden Indian and lawn jockeys without the good location specific historical reasons that you sometimes see those things, there are a few historical periods often seen in the Japanese version ofgeneric nonspecific medieval fantasy that should absolutely be mined for all the same reasons we see them so often in anime without knowing the history to not even question them.



Ironically some of those historical things we recognize as nonhistorical fantasy tropes are often pretty well rooted in standard d&d going way back to the early years because of how they improve many games and/or minimize needles bookkeeping & explanations of the world when combined.

• In the Edo period there was a long period of cultural and economic stasis. It might not have lasted the (tens) of thousands of years that many d&d settings maintain cultural stasis, but 1603-1867 makes it a shocking 250+ year stretch of cultural stasis that was never really seen anywhere else in world history. That cultural stasis might not seem significant by itself, but it becomes super noteworthy when combined with other Edo period elements because of how we sometimes see them in d&d as well.
  • Edo had (for the time period) rather extreme restrictions on travel that limited who could travel and when/why they could travel... Even merchants needed to go through the equivalent of the more recent "papers please" checkpoints. Specifics shift a bit depending on who is traveling & for historical reasons which end of the time period is closer to the date of travel
    
    In the context of d&d that makes it easy to ensure that players need to consider the area they are in as an important home territory because they can't just faff off to water deep for shopping or to lay low if they want to
  • Warrior peasant craftsman & merchant social classes were present, as were rather significant class based restrictions on weapons that limited people in what weapons they could own, how many they could own, and how/if they could wear them.
    
    D&d having weaponless peasants/merchants/etc & under equipped individuals who really wish they could have things they could afford to buy goes all the way back to the early days of d&d. Coupled with the travel restrictions this makes for a good reason why an adventurer class of murderhobos roaming the monster infested land might be tolerated
  • The Tokugawa Shogunate as a ruling body had a policy of "alternate attendance" that required the feudal lords to split their residence between their home territory & the capital with the goal of (among other things) Keeping roads in good condition & minimizing efforts to overthrow it & go back to the prior warring states period where everyone was at war
    
    When applied to d&d this makes for a good reason why the apocalypse engine known as a high level PC can't simply demand to see the local lord as well as why a lower level one meeting them while being hired to deal with some monster problem/adventure might be a big deal that can't simply be repeated
• Prior to the Edo period was the warring states period. I don't think that we even need to get into details beyond the nameon why that provides useful fodder for a d&d settng

All of those are great historical elements to mine for a karatura setting & we see them so regularly in anime that most d&d players won't even realize they are historical rather than anime derived.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

All they have to do is hire a culture consultant or 3. It isn't that hard.

The original Oriental Adventures had 3, amusingly. It's the first and only "other culture" RPG book to have any for like, fifteen years or something (Zeb Cook always ahead of his time). Didn't stop it having pretty serious issues - but it is notably a lot less racist and more just "pulp Japan" (in ways that Japanese pulp stuff sometimes leans into, albeit with more nuance in those cases) than a lot of later '90s stuff (Kindred of the East springs to mind).

Or just consumed by more diverse audiences here. The Spelljammer Minstrel Show would have likely gone unnoticed without PoC readers catching it.

I don't think it would have gone unnoticed, I literally saw the image and said "Are you [expletive] kidding me?!" and I'm a white guy, just mildly familiar with racist imagery - but the diverse audience absolutely magnifies the issue, because obviously a lot more non-white people are familiar with the racism of certain imagery than white people are and hopefully WotC listens better on that.

I think a Kara-Tur book is pretty doable, with the right creatives.

 

[Reynard]

I think a Kara-Tur book is pretty doable, with the right crcreatives.

But completely unnecessary.

 

[Shardstone]

The original Oriental Adventures had 3, amusingly. It's the first and only "other culture" RPG book to have any for like, fifteen years or something (Zeb Cook always ahead of his time). Didn't stop it having pretty serious issues - but it is notably a lot less racist and more just "pulp Japan" (in ways that Japanese pulp stuff sometimes leans into, albeit with more nuance in those cases) than a lot of later '90s stuff (Kindred of the East springs to mind).

I don't think it would have gone unnoticed, I literally saw the image and said "Are you [expletive] kidding me?!" and I'm a white guy, just mildly familiar with racist imagery - but the diverse audience absolutely magnifies the issue, because obviously a lot more non-white people are familiar with the racism of certain imagery than white people are and hopefully WotC listens better on that.

I think a Kara-Tur book is pretty doable, with the right creatives.

Let's hope they're better in the 21st century!

 

[Farenn]

Bringing back an asian-inspired setting from the 80s?

I predict they will have to issue at least two apologies after they release that book.

Not that the idea of non-eurpean settings is a bad one. If anything, they would be a breath of freash air.

Well, if they have to issue apologies it would be because some of the readers are being ridiculous and not because of anything that WotC did. I am Korean and I absolutely loved the 1st edition Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Oriental Adventures. My Japanese friend that I played AD&D with loved it too. Considering that TSR even back in 1985 had the sense to hire Asian play testers to provide input tells me that WotC will do just fine. I for one would LOVE it if WotC releases a Kara-Tur setting.

 

[Erdric Dragin]

Maybe we could get an Asian inspired setting that isn't actually trying to present fantasy China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, etc... Maybe we could create something new that doesn't have the inherent potential to land badly (to give the generous prediction).

Make. Something. New.

Kara-Tur can easily be remastered/remade. Just say it was the Spellplague that changed so much of it.

This is a grand opportunity to finally bring this setting back after DECADES, and to do it right. As well as finally step away from "Eurofantasy" for a time. (as well as stepping away from the Sword Coast/Faerun also)

Just hire some Asian writers and counselors and get the setting going already, not even that difficult. Paizo JUST did it with Tian Xia.

 

[tetrasodium]

But completely unnecessary.

No there are good reasons for a generic Japanese medieval fantasy equivalent setting

Spoiler: Like these ones

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

I'm sure others have said it, but the spellplague should be used to shake up the politics and culture of Kara-Tur- and maybe some of the other settings like Maztica or Al Qadim. The only things that should be the same are the geography and the history up until the 14th century DR.

Having never played Oriental Adventures in its heyday, to me the appeal of Kara Tur wasn't "I get to play D&D in Chanbara Japan" but "How do societies based off things like Imperial China or Sekoku Japan interact with the established lore and setting of the forgotten realms?" So let's have those interactions take place and shake things up.

 

[Cergorach]

I am a 2e fan of FR, and have a fondness of the non-western sub-settings, like: Maztica, Al-Quadim, Kara-Tur, etc. I don't remember them as being particularly racist, that doesn't mean it isn't in there, it's just not what's important to me. What is exactly important to me in those settings? I don't know exactly. Can it be done more tastefully? Probably. But...

While a fan of 2e and 3e FR fluff, I'm not a fan of 4e/5e FR fluff. I thought the 4e rules were technically very good, just didn't feel like D&D. 5e is very straightforward and I would maybe even say, simple, sometimes even too simple... But 5e is what we play now. That said, the 5e setting/fluff books don't interest me in the same way (anymore?) that the 2e/3e setting/fluff books did. I find the FR (adventure) books a lot of Meh! And even stuff I love like Planescape and Spelljammer don't incentivize to buy that, the settings seem washed out. To me it doesn't seem like an advancement, but more like something similar, but maybe a different reality setting that makes less people mad.... Ok, that's fine. But I would fear for a 'new' Kara-Tur in the same line as all the other 5e setting re-releases, that wouldn't jive with what I find enjoyable.

The Paizo attempt of doing a culturally 'sensitive' asian fantasy setting in the pf2e world looked very good from the art and what was being told here: paizo.com - Community / Paizo Blog
But much of the reported marketing I've seen is less focused on the content and more about the people writing it and do we really need to know when presenting these writers how they like to be identivied as? And when you look some of those writers up, their first (published) writing experience is this setting book facepalm. I'm still reading through a bunch of new Paizo stuff, but I expect that I'll probably buy the AP, the setting and character book. Which would probably be more then I would say of a potential 5e Kara-Tur book... But I have Kara-Tur books from 2e, but nothing I can think of for Tian-Xia from pf1e or D&D3e... So I'm probably biased. But if other people enjoy it, have fun!

What I don't get is, if this such an issue, why not let these kinds of books be written by people actually living in asian culture instead of Americans that might have asian parents or grandparents? If you are born in America, no matter the skintone, you're American and your perspective is going to be skewed. There are a TON of great and talented Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Indian, etc. (fantasy/fiction) writers, I've read/watched some of those translated works.

 

[Reynard]

No there are good reasons for a generic Japanese medieval fantasy equivalent setting

Spoiler: Like these ones

You misunderstood. There is no reason to remake/reboot Kara Tur. Make something new. Same goes for the rest of the settings that have been dead for 30 years.