Haste - Charge and then Partial Charge (or vice-versa)

[IceBear]

Was never arguing about maintaining momentum. Just was stating how the Sage said it was intended, and with Skip being a designer and all....

Situation:

Fighter is 30 ft away from a wizard who casts a spell at him and then runs 30ft down a side corridor. The fighter moves up 30ft, turns to the right and readies an attack against anyone within 30ft, the readied acton immediately kicks in and he charges down the corridor and attacks.

If the fighter just moved 60ft to the wizard he couldn't have gotten the attack at all, which bothers me a little.

Hmmmm - I just thought of something. How does my example resolve itself. Normally a readied action is in response to something ("When a monster comes within 30ft of me, when the spellcaster caster's the spell, etc). Thus, you had the initiative and are waiting. In the above case, you had a lower initiative, but suddenly, after the attack you're initiative is supposed to be higher? Somethings not right there.

If the above case is completely invalid, then I too wouldn't have a problem with someone moving around an obstacle and then readying a partial charge in a different direction (even if that's against how the Sage ruled).

IceBear

 

[Uller]

I thought I already posted this, but I guess not...

I stick with the "All movement must be in a straight line" rule. No changing direction. So no charge, turn around and partial charge. No move 30ft, then ready a partial charge in a different direction. Both seem to be against the spirit of the rule to me.

Also, I do allow a partial charge as part of a standard action(so long as your MEA is either not a move or is a move in the same direction as your charge). Otherwise, I can't justify the fact that you can draw a sword and ready a partial charge, but you can't just draw a sword and immediately do a partial charge...

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Icebear,

The issue with the move + readied partial charge is exactly the problem I have with the charge rules. It doesn't show up in the rules for the standard action. It doesn't show up in the rules for the partial charge. It is logically implied by the rules for the normal charge action but poorly enough explained to create room for doubt.

It is trivial to create an always true ready conditions like "if the wizard breathes or moves in any way, I charge".

Anyway, I think I know how readied partial charges should work: if you move + readied charge the charge must be in the same direction as the move.

Should this restriction apply to the partial action from Haste? The rules most certainly don't say.

 

[IceBear]

Yeah...I'm mostly in the camp where in a typical round all your movement must be in the same direction - to do otherwise feels like it's exploiting a loophole.

As for the partial action with haste, I am confused as well. However, since our group really treats that as a mini-round (we allow the 2nd 5ft step in it) then to be consistent I would have to allow it to work too.

As someone pointed out, allowing two charges probably isn't as bad as a partial charge + FRA that he could have done instead.

IceBear

 

[Artoomis]

Icebear,

The issue with the move + readied partial charge is exactly the problem I have with the charge rules. It doesn't show up in the rules for the standard action. It doesn't show up in the rules for the partial charge. It is logically implied by the rules for the normal charge action but poorly enough explained to create room for doubt.

It is trivial to create an always true ready conditions like "if the wizard breathes or moves in any way, I charge".

Anyway, I think I know how readied partial charges should work: if you move + readied charge the charge must be in the same direction as the move.

Perhaps so. In any case, it's pretty clear (and I think almost everyone agrees) that a readied action + partial charge should not be allowed to be used to simply get around the charge rules by allowing a charge with a change of direction, even if very strictly reading the rules could lead you to that conclusion.

Of course, always true ready conditions (like: if the human wizard breathes) are pretty clearly against the intent of the rules anyway - even if within the "letter of the law," so to speak.

As for Haste/Charge/Partial Charge - opinions seem to be split about 50/50. Hmmmm.... I wonder what the Sage will say, and if he'll include any reasoning?

 

[IceBear]

I was just going to suggest the Sage.

I have found that if you give a detailed question, he will give a detailed answer, in general.

I suspect, that since he made the ruling about partial charges requiring all movement to be in the same line, he will rule this way with haste too

IceBear

 

[Artoomis]

Well, here is the Sage's response:

Can you Charge and Partial Charge in two different directions when hasted?

No.

Opinions over at EN World are split.

Obviously, you can only move in a straight line when taking the Charge action - but what about when the action is over and you go to do the partial action that Haste grants?

Whenever you charge, all your movement during your turn must be in a straight line and in the same direction.



After reading his answer, it occured to me that allowing a partial charge to be in a direction totally independent of the main action in a hasted round is the rough equivalent to allowing a full-round casting time to be accelerated to a full-round action by using both the regular and hasted partial action together to cast the spell.

Balance-wise they seem about the same.

Rules-wise, the charge stuff is better supported than the spell stuff, yet the spell stuff is supported by the Sage and the charge stuff is not.

Go figure.

 

[IceBear]

Exactly as I thought he would rule.

Hmmmm - he's fast today, the last couple of times I've emailed him it's been two or three days before I got a reply.

IceBear

 

[Artoomis]

Exactly as I thought he would rule.

Hmmmm - he's fast today, the last couple of times I've emailed him it's been two or three days before I got a reply.

IceBear

I e-mailed him Friday. Still, a pretty good response time.

 

[Artoomis]

For those who might be interested, I've posted pictures of Gibley, my halfing mounted paladin, here:

http://test.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=209320#post209320

It's so much fun to be able to do a mounted charge in a dungeon!! (Even if it doesn't always work out so well ) It makes the paladin's mount so much more useful!