Haste question

[Nail]

I don't think it works that way. If a mage in your party casts Finger of Death on you, you still get a save against it, even if he told you he was going to cast Haste instead and you believed him. So you must get at least some sort of inkling of what the spell is going to do before you decide whether or not to try to resist it.

What?

I'm completely un-clear about what you've posted, and how it differs with what bestone posted.

 

[Grog]

What?

I'm completely un-clear about what you've posted, and how it differs with what bestone posted.

He's saying that creatures have no idea as to what kind of spell is being cast upon them.

I'm saying I don't think that's true, because even if you think you're going to receive a Haste spell and the wizard casts Finger of Death on you instead, you still get a saving throw. Thus, you must get some idea of what kind of spell is being cast upon you before you make the decision as to whether or not to resist.

 

[Nail]

He's saying that creatures have no idea as to what kind of spell is being cast upon them.

Because he's right: the creature without Spellcraft has no way of knowing the truth beforehand.

I'm saying I don't think that's true, because even if you think you're going to receive a Haste spell and the wizard casts Finger of Death on you instead, you still get a saving throw.

No. You always get a saving throw (for those spells that allow them), and you may chose not to roll a save.

You say "I accept the spell cast on me, and neglect the save." Then the spell turns out to be Finger of Death....

 

[gnfnrf]

Say a spellcaster casts Confusion on two monsters and they start fighting. Then he casts Haste on them so they'll kill each other faster. Would the monsters receive a saving throw against the Haste in that situation?

The creatures will decide whether or not they wish to save normally. Confusion affects a creatures actions, not its defenses. Whether the creatures wish to be affected by Haste or not is their own decision.

--
gnfnrf

 

[bestone]

I was entirely sure there is a statement somewhere in the phb that says you dont get a save if you allow a spell to be cast on you. Tho i could be wrong
you can always just try to save against anything he casts on you.....

better trust that mage buddy of yours, or not piss him off

we actually did play a session where we picked on the cleric, and he went to "heal" us when we were all low (some unconcious) and casted an inflict spell instead, we all woke up from unconciousness buck naked and tied up, and after he graciously let us go and gave us our stuff back we never teased him again.

 

[Grog]

No. You always get a saving throw (for those spells that allow them), and you may chose not to roll a save.

You say "I accept the spell cast on me, and neglect the save." Then the spell turns out to be Finger of Death....

So the party wizard says "Gather around everyone and I'll teleport us home." Then he casts Wail of the Banshee instead, the entire party dies without a save, and the wizard takes their stuff and goes on his merry way?

 

[bestone]

So the party wizard says "Gather around everyone and I'll teleport us home." Then he casts Wail of the Banshee instead, the entire party dies without a save, and the wizard takes their stuff and goes on his merry way?

This is why people dont trust mages!

 

[Nail]

So the party wizard says "Gather around everyone and I'll teleport us home." Then he casts Wail of the Banshee instead, the entire party dies without a save, and the wizard takes their stuff and goes on his merry way?

Yup.

....although interestingly, Teleport may not allow a save for touched creatures, according to RAW.

 

[gavagai]

I always thought that every spell that directly affects a creature alwys allows a save; (harmless) refers to the fact that all reasons to resist are somewhat farfledged (In the elven realm of Slowlife, acting in haste is punishable by Death - possible? yes, likely? um ... no). The reason for slow being Will save and haste being Fortitude is that you want to have hasted Deathknights, but no wizard is supposed to slow the guy (screw the heroes!)

 

[Hypersmurf]

I was entirely sure there is a statement somewhere in the phb that says you dont get a save if you allow a spell to be cast on you. Tho i could be wrong
you can always just try to save against anything he casts on you.....

If a spell has a saving throw, you automatically attempt the save unless you elect not to.

... unless the spell is (harmless). In which case you automatically ignore the saving throw, unless you elect to take it.

So if someone says they're going to cast Haste, but you suspect it might be Finger of Death, you don't choose to ignore the saving throw, and you don't choose to make the saving throw; rather, you deliberately avoid making any conscious decision. That way, if it's Haste ((harmless)), the saving throw doesn't happen because you didn't elect to make one; and if it's Finger of Death (not (harmless)), the saving throw happens because you didn't elect not to make one.

This is all very sensible, since it means that an unconscious character, who can't make decisions, will automatically allow a Heal spell (Will negates, (harmless)), but will automatically attempt to resist, say, Dominate Person.

(As an aside, I've personally elected to make a saving throw against Bless, before; there were two clerics in the party, and I was one, and I wasn't accepting no blessing from that other deity!)

-Hyp.